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Forcing?

#1 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 11:18

How do you prefer to play:

1♦-(P)-1♥-(1♠)
3♣

and

1♦-(1♠)-P-(P)
3♣
Kevin Fay
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#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 11:31

I prefer forcing. The second one might be objected to, by those who like to open 2♣ with 2-suiters.
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#3 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 11:36

First one forcing, second one not. Luckily my preference matches standard bidding.
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#4 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 11:58

Both situations looks very similar to me. I would play both of them as forcing and probably the second one should be stronger.

I can bid 2♣ in both and also double (although in the first one it would probably be 3-card heart support which narrows my possibilities). As for being forcing, I think I agree with jdonn but only because if I REALLY had to force in the second one I might as well cue-bid.

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#5 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 12:05

jdonn, on Jul 8 2010, 12:36 PM, said:

First one forcing, second one not. Luckily my preference matches standard bidding.

Me too.
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#6 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 12:06

Me two.
OK
bed
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#7 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 12:40

In my case I use 2NT good bad, so both are NF for me.
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#8 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 12:48

1st forcing, 2nd not.

Haha KFay...........
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#9 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 14:27

jdonn, on Jul 9 2010, 05:36 AM, said:

First one forcing, second one not. Luckily my preference matches standard bidding.

Agree except that its sometimes hard to know what is standard in these sort of situations.
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Posted 2010-July-08, 17:31

Hanoi5, on Jul 8 2010, 12:58 PM, said:

Both situations looks very similar to me. I would play both of them as forcing and probably the second one should be stronger.

How are they similar? In the first one partner has responded to your non-forcing opening bid, so it is logical to have some forcing bids available. In the second one, partner can still have nothing, 1♦ was not forcing, so it is not logical for any of opener's bids to be forcing.

Anyway agree with first one forcing, second one not.
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#11 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-July-08, 18:15

Forcing, NF
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#12 User is offline   gszeszycki 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 06:51

1♦-(P)-1♥-(1♠)
3♣

1♦-(1♠)-P-(P)
3♣

I think the standard interpretation is first forcing 2nd not. How I prefer to play is
another matter entirely.

the two situations are extremely dissimilar and in situation 1 those of you that play
support x are at a disadvantage.

hand 1 NF

the first I would play as strongly invitational --a hand not strong enough to bid 3s (asking for spade stop for 3n) or even 2s (a bid that says nothing about heart support) and wrong distribution for x something similar to
xx x KQJxx AKQxx

hand 2 NF

the second as non forcing and very distributional and weak similar to

void x Axxxxx AQxxxx
bidding 2c in this position should generally be stronger than bidding 3c.
The reason for this is you are backing into an auction where there is significant danger in the form of the opps making a game and at least by preemting with a weak hand you make it harder for either to compete because of the unknown nature of your partners hand.
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#13 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 08:03

i play standard also
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#14 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 08:03

Both non-forcing.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#15 User is offline   sectorzz9 

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Posted 2010-July-09, 15:11

First forcing, second NF for me.
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#16 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2010-July-10, 03:41

whereagles, on Jul 8 2010, 07:40 PM, said:

In my case I use 2NT good bad, so both are NF for me.

You use a _jump_ to 2NT as good/bad? What do you do with a strong balanced hand (particularly on the first one)?
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