[mohitz]

Scoring: IMP

---

1♠ - 2♥
2♠ - 3♦
3♠ - 4♠

2♥ - GF, 5+ hearts
2♠ - Catch all, does not promise 6 spades, usually denies 3 hearts.

[helene_t]

South shouldn't bid spades three times. 3♥ at his 3rd turn is better.

Maybe North will bid 3♠ now, can't bid 3NT.

South may then bid 3NT but more likely I think he will bid 4♠.

Hopefully 3NT is off also, if the clubs honors are split and opps don't play clubs and the diamond finesse is off.

[whereagles]

3♠ is clearly off. South has a simple 3NT bid.

In the more common 2/1 styles, helene's suggested 3♥ is good too.

[gnasher]

Is it enough for South to bid 3♥? Over that, North might bid 3♠, looking for a 6-2 spade fit. Then South would bid 4♠, knowing that a 6-2 fit had been found. The weak club stop and good red cards don't really argue for 3NT.

Since Justin seems not to be around, I'll suggest that North should bid 2NT over 2♠. I'm not sure how much that would help, though: continuations like 3♠-4♠ or 3♥-3♠;4♠ still seem quite inviting.

To get this right, you really need both partners to know about the 6-2 fit and then eschew it. That, in turn, needs methods where opener shows his six-card suit on the second round.

[aguahombre]

gnasher, on Jul 2 2010, 09:02 AM, said:

To get this right, you really need both partners to know about the 6-2 fit and then eschew it.  That, in turn, needs methods where opener shows his six-card suit on the second round.

Knowing about the 6-2 fit would be the easy part, if responder did not consider it a GF hand and responded 1NT (F). Eschewing it might be tougher. But stopping in 3S might happen.

[mikeh]

Some hands are too tough.

I would applaud anyone who reached 3N knowing what they were doing.

I do agree that opener's 3♠ call was silly. 3♥ is infinitely better...QJ in partner's suit is at least as good, in context, as Jxx, and surely we'd all bid hearts with Jxx?

And I see no way for responder to bid 3N rather than 3♠. He bids 3♠, and opener with a undisclosed (in many methods) 6th spade and dubious club cards opposite known club shortness, will bid 4♠...no doubt being tempted, in the post mortem to say that he 'almost' bid 3N.

Actually, after writing the preceding, I began toying with Andy's 2N suggestion. It could, obviously, work out very badly if partner raised to 3N and they ran clubs, either immediately or on winning a later trick....but when I started thinking of problem holdings, I had trouble finding hands that offered a good play for 4major and a poor play for 3N AND on which opener should simply raise to 3N. I mean, the hand in question looks like a reaonable one to reach 3N after 2N: opener maybe bids 3N immediately but if he doesn't he bids, I assume, 3♥, hears 3♠ and now makes a choice of games 3N call.

So...I like 2N, better than when I began reading this thread.

[cloa513]

Don't bid 2S with just 6 S to an honour- if flatness rebid 2NT if permitted by system

[jdonn]

Too tough for me. I think I would bid

1♠ 2♥
2♠ 2NT
3♥ 3♠
4♠

If I were to get there at all it would be north bidding 3NT instead of 3♠ or south bidding 3NT instead of 4♠. Both of those seem a bit too double dummy to me.

[rogerclee]

1S-2H
2S-2N
3H-3S

I think all these bids are more or less clear. Now south can bid 3N or 4S, and I would just bid 4S, oh well.

[robertb]

I think the auction would need to go like this to reach 3NT

1♠ - 2♥
2NT - 3NT

I don't know if I'm a good enough player to rebid 2NT at the table, but when I consider it, it seems like the smart action. I'm balanced; it will mean that partner won't support spades on two small, which I ought to know I don't want him to do, and I'm presumably in the right range.

After 2NT, I think 3NT is pretty clearcut.

[pooltuna]

I would guess that anything that doesn't get to the 4♠ game and gets to 3NT instead is probably masterminding the hand

[gnasher]

I don't think it's hard to get to 3NT given the right methods. If 2♠ promised a 6-card suit, this would be a reasonable auction:

1♠-2♥
2♠-3♦
3♥-3♠
3NT

[FrancesHinden]

I wouldn't make a game forcing 2/1 on the North hand.

How about
1S - 1NT
2S - 2NT*
3NT** - Pass

*shortness ask
**max with no shortness

[jdonn]

Frances I don't like your auction. Why can't south have any of the hands where you'd rather be in 4♠ instead of 3NT, KQJxxx xx Qxx Ax etc etc? It seems beyond double dummy to me to say north would choose 3NT with Jx of clubs. The rest of us could have made the same judgment anyway after 1♠ 2♥ 2♠ 2NT 3♥ and bid 3NT which south will only pass with a balanced hand.

I like gnasher's auction more than any of the others that got to 3NT, and as much as it pains me to admit it, it's a good hand for the rebid of the major promising 6. Not that the auction was automatic though, north might bid 2NT or raise spades at his second turn.

[hanp]

I agree that this is a very tough hand and if you play the methods I'm accustomed to, it's hard not to get to 4S.

I don't understand not bidding 2H. This is a 12-count with a five-card heart suit, if you don't force to game then you probably can't show your hearts. On the auction given by Frances, responder ended up forcing to game anyway without any particularly good news. The final pass is random and smells like somebody knew both hands.

[gwnn]

It's annoying to admit that here I'd get to 4♠ in the 6-2 fit and in Phil's hand I'd get to 3NT despite the 6-2 fit in spades, being wrong on both occasions.

[neilkaz]

Very hard to not get to 4♠ here playing 2/1 methods but my 3rd call as opener would have been 3♥ rather than 3♠

[FrancesHinden]

hanp, on Jul 3 2010, 11:30 PM, said:

I agree that this is a very tough hand and if you play the methods I'm accustomed to, it's hard not to get to 4S.

I don't understand not bidding 2H. This is a 12-count with a five-card heart suit, if you don't force to game then you probably can't show your hearts. On the auction given by Frances, responder ended up forcing to game anyway without any particularly good  news. The final pass is random and smells like somebody knew both hands.

Responder's 2NT on my auction was not game forcing, it showed invitational values and asked for shortage.

Of course my auction is a bit double dummy, but I do play in some successful 3NT contracts on this type of auction.

Whether responder's hand is worth a game force or not depends on your opening bid style. I've only just looked at the vulnerability and see the opening was at red, in which case I suppose a 2/1 is reasonable, but opposite a 1st NV 1S opening I would definitely not drive game.

On reflection I'd still bid 1NT opposite a 1st vul opening. Maybe it's a reflection of the methods I play over a semi-forcing NT, but I'll still get to game opposite a balanced 13-count (the only thing I might miss is a good 5-2 heart fit).

[hanp]

I missed in your first post that 3NT showed a maximum besides no shortness, sorry.

[gszeszycki]

Dealer: South
Vul: N/S
Scoring: IMP
♠ 9x
♥ AKxxx
♦ KJxx
♣ Jx

♠ AT8xxx
♥ QJ
♦ Ax
♣ Q8x

1♠ - 2♥
2♠ - 3♦
3♠ - 4♠

2♥ - GF, 5+ hearts
2♠ - Catch all, does not promise 6 spades, usually denies 3 hearts.

1s 2h seems very normal the problem is the 6 card spade suit is pretty crummy and I am unconvinced repeating it is sound bidding. I have no troubles pretending this is a 5 card suit. The best call appears to be

2n

This bid has several advantages
1. Bidding remains LOW responder can bid other suits if they wish to pursue a contract other than nt.
2.Has the advantage of showing a balanced (almost certainly) minimum opener
with stoppers in unbid suits (ok ok Qxx maybe needs some spinach).
3. If NT is right contract it is probably best from our side
4. if P raises spades at least we know it was with 3 (or 2 good ones).
5. If P now bids 3c or 3d I am now very happy to bid 3H.

after 2n responder has nothing much else to look for so bids 3n. With xx clubs (vs Jx) I might be strongly tempted to bid 3d and we would end up in 4h after bidding goes
1s 2h 2n 3d 3h 4h