[Echognome]

3♠ seems like it might really get them. Of course I only find that I try out such craziness in online bridge.

[aguahombre]

Not 3♦, and not going to change system to allow 2, just because this hand came up. I will have other oportunities to jack the opps around.

[aguahombre]

Echognome, on Jun 30 2010, 03:34 PM, said:

3♠ seems like it might really get them. Of course I only find that I try out such craziness in online bridge.

Happy b-day yesterday.

[gwnn]

2NT natural also possibly very effective, btw. And did I mention 3♥?

[gnasher]

I opened 3♦, LHO overcalled 3NT, and they played there instead of in their 9-card heart fit. 3NT went one down, whilst in the other room 4♥ was made with careful play. Of course, that's only one data point.

[kfay]

gwnn, on Jun 30 2010, 06:08 PM, said:

2NT natural also possibly very effective, btw.

yes that's true! wrong position, perhaps, and better if my majors were reversed?

[gwnn]

Gnasher weren't you the president of People Against Three-card Majors In 3m Openers Party? Did you recently resign?

[jdonn]

I'm not so sure that holding this hand I'd want to push the opponents from a 9 card heart fit to notrump. Maybe but maybe not.

[mike777]

As a nonexpert...pass...

If forced to bid prefer 1d.

must admit 3d never thought of as an option until i read your posts

[gnasher]

gwnn, on Jul 1 2010, 01:52 AM, said:

Gnasher weren't you the president of People Against Three-card Majors In 3m Openers Party? Did you recently resign?

Being 3-3 or 3-2 in the majors is a downside when preempting, because there's less chance that they have a major-suit fit, and if they do get to a major their trump suit will be breaking. Those arguments don't apply when we're 3-0.

[gszeszycki]

PASS I have plenty of time to show my minors (as in BOTH suits) later if it sounds wise. There is no reason to so completely misrepresent my hand in 1st chair even if once or twice in a lifetime something good happens from it. I am amazed at how many replies actually think starting with 2/3 d or 3c sounds remotely like a sound bid. I like to call those bid Las Vegas because they are
pure gambles far more likely to lose than win. Pass not as much "fun" but a ton
sounder.

[gwnn]

I thought you were against it because we will miss our major suit fit too often, I was trying to find something but all I found was a thread where you criticised my 3H opening with 3-7 in the majors.

[y66]

Jeff Miller of New Zealand may be able to provide additional data points. In his "Statistical Snapshots of the 2007 World Championships" article, he reported that pairs who opened 3 of a minor did better, on the same deals, than pairs who did not, gaining 4.3 IMPs on average. I suspect Oleberg also has quite a few data points.

[655321]

gszeszycki, on Jul 1 2010, 07:10 AM, said:

PASS  I have plenty of time to show my minors (as in BOTH suits) later if it sounds wise. There is no reason to so completely misrepresent my hand in 1st chair even if once or twice in a lifetime something good happens from it. I am amazed at how many replies actually think starting with 2/3 d or 3c sounds remotely like a sound bid. I like to call those bid Las Vegas because they are pure gambles far more likely to lose than win. Pass not as much "fun" but a ton sounder.

I am not trying to argue that 3♦ is the right bid, partly because I am not even convinced that it is right myself.

But I don't think you understand the issues at all. Also I doubt that anybody who opens 3♦ thinks of this as a 'sound' bid. The point is that as dealer w/r we are in an ideal position to preempt, and the hand we have is weak and distributional, a hand which is suitable for preemptive action. The 'misrepresenting' the hand that so horrifies your sense of propriety might be considered a small price to pay if it causes the vulnerable opponents to misjudge.

Sure preempting can come at a cost, sometimes it turns out badly. But deciding to pass now and perhaps bid your suits later on if you think it wise is not cost-free either. Whether you realize it or not, you are giving up the advantage of being dealer at w/r, and giving up the benefits of having a preemptive hand, in exchange for perhaps being able to bid your suits (at no inconvenience to the opponents) later on.

[Phil]

gnasher, on Jun 30 2010, 07:20 PM, said:

I opened 3♦, LHO overcalled 3NT, and they played there instead of in their 9-card heart fit. 3NT went one down, whilst in the other room 4♥ was made with careful play. Of course, that's only one data point.

I would open 3♦ in 3rd w/w.

Maybe that isn't considered crazy anymore.

[FrancesHinden]

gnasher, on Jul 1 2010, 01:20 AM, said:

I opened 3♦, LHO overcalled 3NT, and they played there instead of in their 9-card heart fit. 3NT went one down[*], whilst in the other room 4♥ was made with careful play. Of course, that's only one data point.

*doubled, not on a diamond lead

[zasanya]

gszeszycki, on Jul 1 2010, 07:10 AM, said:

PASS  I have plenty of time to show my minors (as in BOTH suits) later if it sounds wise. There is no reason to so completely misrepresent my hand in 1st chair even if once or twice in a lifetime something good happens from it. I am amazed at how many replies actually think starting with 2/3 d or 3c sounds remotely like a sound bid. I like to call those bid Las Vegas because they are
pure gambles far more likely to lose than win. Pass not as much "fun" but a ton
sounder.

I agree with you but....sigh... so many experts cannot be wrong....or can they? More Seriously I think your action depends upon what your P expects you to hold by 3♦ bid .My present Partners ( none of them experts) would never believe that I am preempting 3 level with 5 cards and tram tickets so I pass but if I ever play with an expert who thinks 3♦ is a wtp bid then I will gladly do so.If we go for a telephone number I can always refer her to this thread and if I win 4.3 imps I will have a tale to tell.

[whereagles]

zasanya, on Jul 2 2010, 08:06 AM, said:

so many experts cannot be wrong....or can they?

most experts preempt far more than the book recommends.