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Competing at favourable

Poll: Your call (26 member(s) have cast votes)

Your call

  1. Pass (4 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  2. Double (takeout) (16 votes [61.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.54%

  3. Double (penalty) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 2NT (Lebensohl, to compete in hearts) (4 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  5. 3D (Rubensohl, to compete in hearts) (1 votes [3.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.85%

  6. Other (1 votes [3.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.85%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 07:12

Scoring: IMP

You are South and open the bidding.

Pass (1♠) 1NT (2♠)
?

Do you compete and, if so, how?

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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 07:27

takeout x.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#3 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 07:57

I pass. I am not sure if that's right at all but I think we will end up in some silly contract too often while prospect for game are remote.
Partner can still reopen if he is dealt 2-4 in majors with decent hand.
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#4 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 08:39

I was faced with a similar auction last night and I competed on a significantly worse hand, and vulnerable to boot.

I would negative X and correct 3♦ to 3♥.
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#5 User is offline   RMB1 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 08:43

When commentated on this hand today, I suggest a TOX, so I guess I should be consistent.
Robin

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#6 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 09:46

Of course takeout X, I don't even think this is a problem.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#7 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 09:47

X. Happy if partner passes and happy if partner takes it out. Hopefully we are playing 2NT as two places to play.
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#8 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 11:38

Apollo81, on Jun 25 2010, 09:39 AM, said:

I was faced with a similar auction last night and I competed on a significantly worse hand, and vulnerable to boot.

I would negative X and correct 3♦ to 3♥.

Agree with Apollo Creed here.
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#9 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 14:50

joining the double bandwagon. hope pard doesn't take a heart lead too seriously lol
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#10 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 16:15

When I saw this I thought double was completely clear. The international holding this hand passed.

Then I wondered what would be said if partner's 1NT was actually a ten count with long diamonds, would pass be fielding a psyche?

Hence the poll, where a significant minority do pass, that shows that the double is not quite as clear as I felt at the time.
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#11 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 16:22

Negative double and pulling 3D to 3H is NF, so that seems normal We will get into some trouble if partner has 4 hearts and 4 clubs (since we will play 3C instead of 4H), but unfortunately we can't cater to this without giving up on clubs.
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#12 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 16:46

Quote

Negative double and pulling 3D to 3H is NF


I think it should show strength of game invite while weak hand with 6+♥ is in lebensohl (or w/e you play there).
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#13 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2010-June-25, 18:14

As 1NT denied interest in the other Major, I won't push for this 5-3H.
X as xfer to clubs.
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#14 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-June-26, 02:05

I think many would play double followed by 3H as invitational.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#15 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2010-June-26, 04:03

hanp, on Jun 26 2010, 10:05 AM, said:

I think many would play double followed by 3H as invitational.

I do, but there are many "outs"

- Partner bids clubs.
- Partner scrambles, we bid 3♣. Now 3♥ (on 3♦) is not invitational.
- 4♥ makes.
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#16 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2010-June-26, 04:11

I would double and pass 3D. partner usually has 5 of them not to have bid 2NT scramble. (And anyway I play 3H as forcing after making the take-out double)
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#17 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-June-26, 04:26

FrancesHinden, on Jun 26 2010, 11:11 AM, said:

(And anyway I play 3H as forcing after making the take-out double)

What's the difference between that and your other way(s) of bidding 3♥?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#18 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2010-June-26, 12:46

2NT then 3H is not forcing but raisable
An immediate 3H is also forcing, but doesn't give me the opportunity to defend 2Sx.

There's one hand-type where you can't start with a double; I prefer to use it on the balanced(ish) game forcing type, rather than an invitational hand.

Not all 3H bids are forcing, of course:
1S 1NT 2S x
P 2NT* P 3C
P 3D P 3H

*two places to play

is not forcing, it's selecting hearts from the choice of diamonds and hearts

p.s. I think it's reasonable to play 3H here as invitational with 5 hearts, not as forcing, but I think it's wrong to play it as, effectively, a contract correction.
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#19 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2010-June-26, 14:05

andy_h, on Jun 26 2010, 03:47 AM, said:

X. Happy if partner passes and happy if partner takes it out. Hopefully we are playing 2NT as two places to play.

What does partner do when he has some sort of stopper but not enough to want to play for penalties and no decent suit to bid?
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#20 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-June-26, 15:08

Cascade, on Jun 26 2010, 09:05 PM, said:

What does partner do when he has some sort of stopper but not enough to want to play for penalties and no decent suit to bid?

He bids 2NT, showing an even number of places to play.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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