[jeffford76]

Unopposed, 2/1, no explicit agreement about what the jump rebid shows

1S - 2H;
3S - 4H

[pooltuna]

jeffford76, on Jun 16 2010, 11:17 AM, said:

Unopposed, 2/1, no explicit agreement about what the jump rebid shows

1S - 2H;
3S - 4H

GF ♥ hand, an exception to 4♣ and 4♦ which would be qbids in support of ♠

[gwnn]

if no explicit agreement, natural.

otherwise cue.

[andy_h]

4H is whatever you want it to be, but with no explicit agreements it is 100% natural unless you want a death wish.

[Phil]

Natural, NF. No inferences about spade length. An example hand would be a under-strength 2/1 with AKJ-7th.

Agree with PT about 4♣/4♦.

Probably a good idea to get an explicit agreement about 3♠.

[jeffford76]

Phil, on Jun 17 2010, 09:22 AM, said:

Probably a good idea to get an explicit agreement about 3♠.

Agreed on this last part. Is there a standard here? When I asked around locally all I got was "good suit, good hand" but that seems far too vague to justify consuming the space.

[Phil]

jeffford76, on Jun 17 2010, 01:59 PM, said:

Phil, on Jun 17 2010, 09:22 AM, said:

Probably a good idea to get an explicit agreement about 3♠.

Agreed on this last part. Is there a standard here? When I asked around locally all I got was "good suit, good hand" but that seems far too vague to justify consuming the space.

3♠ emphasizes suit quality and extras. It sets trump and invites pard to cue or take charge.

The degree of the suit quality will be a functional tradeoff with frequency. For example you might say "max one loser opposite a void" but does this mean KQJ9xxx, KQJTxxx or KQJT9xx?

[the hog]

Cue bid agreeing Spades. 3S shows an excellent suit and sets trumps.

[peachy]

I like the agreement that in 2/1 system, 3S sets spades as trump. Thus, 4H is cuebid just like 4C and 4D would be. In a system where 2/1 is not 100% GF (I don't play this), things could be a little different. In a partnership that has not agreed what this auction means, I would not bid 4H unless prepared to play there.

[Phil]

peachy, on Jun 17 2010, 05:59 PM, said:

Thus, 4H is cuebid just like 4C and 4D would be.

Even if 3♠ 'sets trump' I still think 4♥ is a suit and a suggestion to play. Long, strong hearts are just what opener might need for slam; AKQJxx,Qx,Ax,Axx or it might be a good spot for game - KQJTxxx xx Axx A.

Think of what a 5♥ call looks like over 3♠ and subtract one heart from the hand - or maybe the ♥Q.

[Cascade]

gwnn, on Jun 17 2010, 04:32 AM, said:

if no explicit agreement, natural.

otherwise cue.

lol

what if the explicit agreement is that it is not a cue?

[the hog]

Phil, on Jun 18 2010, 06:56 AM, said:

peachy, on Jun 17 2010, 05:59 PM, said:

Thus, 4H is cuebid just like 4C and 4D would be.

Even if 3♠ 'sets trump' I still think 4♥ is a suit and a suggestion to play. Long, strong hearts are just what opener might need for slam; AKQJxx,Qx,Ax,Axx or it might be a good spot for game - KQJTxxx xx Axx A.

Think of what a 5♥ call looks like over 3♠ and subtract one heart from the hand - or maybe the ♥Q.

Phil, I know what you are saying, but would you seriously bid 4H, (which your opener can pass), over a 3S rebid on KQJTxxx xx Axx A.

I don't think you thought this one through.

[aguahombre]

The_Hog, on Jun 17 2010, 09:27 PM, said:

Phil, on Jun 18 2010, 06:56 AM, said:

peachy, on Jun 17 2010, 05:59 PM, said:

Thus, 4H is cuebid just like 4C and 4D would be.

Even if 3♠ 'sets trump' I still think 4♥ is a suit and a suggestion to play. Long, strong hearts are just what opener might need for slam; AKQJxx,Qx,Ax,Axx or it might be a good spot for game - KQJTxxx xx Axx A.

Think of what a 5♥ call looks like over 3♠ and subtract one heart from the hand - or maybe the ♥Q.

Phil, I know what you are saying, but would you seriously bid 4H, (which your opener can pass), over a 3S rebid on KQJTxxx xx Axx A.

I don't think you thought this one through.

? Something went wrong with this post.

[Phil]

Um what?

(I don't care)

GO LAKERS. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[P_Marlowe]

Natural.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[hanp]

3S sets trump, 4H is natural NF. If you think that's a contradiction, get over it.

[gwnn]

Han can you play 6H after this start?

What is
1S-2H
3S-4H
4NT?
5m?
5H?
I imagine 5NT is pick a slam.

[gwnn]

Cascade, on Jun 18 2010, 01:39 AM, said:

gwnn, on Jun 17 2010, 04:32 AM, said:

if no explicit agreement, natural.

otherwise cue.

lol

what if the explicit agreement is that it is not a cue?

I wanted to say that I would not agree to natural NF

[aguahombre]

hanp, on Jun 18 2010, 04:52 AM, said:

3S sets trump, 4H is natural NF. If you think that's a contradiction, get over it.

Exactly, given the posted consensus about what the space-consuming 3S probably means.

A common problem in 2/1 GF bidding is that jump rebids by opener often screw up the nice, slow auction responder wanted to have. Jumps should be very specific after a 2/1 start.

If it shows the old (Hardy) Solid 6+ suit and at most one outside Ace or King, then it is possible to use all 4-level bids under 4S as cues for spades; and an artificial 3NT to counterset hearts as trump (or reverse it, with 4H natural NF and 3NT for a heart cue). The hand is extremely unlikely to make exactly 3NT, but not 4; so 3NT can still be the agreed meaning or an offer to play in NT.

[peachy]

aguahombre, on Jun 18 2010, 12:07 PM, said:

If it shows the old (Hardy) Solid 6+ suit

Hardy says VERY GOOD that can play opposite singleton, with about 15+, solid not required.