[mike777]

tonight..late night I see as defender where my pickup pard had a decision to make.



low from dummy..pard had ace.....suit contract...go up or duck.......

I saw this over and over tonight....In all cases pard went up with ace and it was wrong.
------------


this made me think..that in general...duck....without a very good reason?

[andy_h]

This question can not be readily answered without analysing the bidding and the dummy in detail. This should provide enough clues and enough time while I think before I play to the first trick so if I choose to duck I do it in tempo. I remember someone once said that if you absolutely do not know how/when to decide to duck or rise, a good proportion of the time you will generally do well by ducking (smoothly) even if the [low] from dummy is a singleton (but obviously rising if it seems totally nonsense to duck)

[semeai]

The fact that people play the Ace here too often seems related to economics studies showing that people will avoid a loss more than they will seek out an (e.g. equal) gain. That is, the Ace is
obviously my right as a trick, so I don't want to lose it, even if by risking it (even if it's fairly low risk) I will often gain (a less-obviously-mine trick later on).

[helene_t]

As declarer, you will more often feel delighted when RHO steps up than when he doesn't. This can either be because when RHO plays low you don't know who has the ace but you need to know who has the ace for some reason. Or because if RHO steps up he helps you maintaining the communications between the hands.

So this suggests that it is more often right to duck than it's right to step up.

[jjbrr]

in general duck without a reason

[Winstonm]

In general if you don't duck you must be a goose.

[Lobowolf]

I tell students that while either play might be right or wrong, and you have to think about each case individually (preferably not at the key moment), far more tricks are lost by grabbing aces than by ducking them.

With respect to avoiding a loss/seeking a gain, that may be part of it. I think the biggest factor by far, among beginning/intermediate players, is that the losses of ducking are just obviously, while the losses of grabbing are generally less readily apparent.

I see it all the time...analogously, you have a hand where there's nothing to the play, and you get the lead of an unsupported ace in a suit where you have Kxx opposite Qxx. Making 5, and everyone is making 4 or 5 depending on how many tricks are won in this suit, and the defenders have no idea why you got an overtrick. Or in the middle of the hand...saw pretty much the identical layout just Saturday. Lead from the jack by the partner, low, 3rd hand ace from ATxx, winning one trick instead of two in the suit. They had no idea where the other trick was supposed to come from. But go to bed with an ace and they remember it for a week, and they're going to make darn sure THAT doesn't happen again.

[peachy]

Lobowolf, on Jun 13 2010, 12:29 PM, said:

I tell students that while either play might be right or wrong, and you have to think about each case individually (preferably not at the key moment), far more tricks are lost by grabbing aces than by ducking them.

Good advice. But then, just tell them to automatically duck unless they already know the reason why they must play ace (setting trick, or get in to return partner's suit or some such valid reason). Saves a lot of telling huddles at the table and keeps the game moving.

[mikeh]

One important habit to acquire is that when dummy hits with a stiff and you are in front of declarer with the A of that suit, take your time before playing to trick one (I mean, you should always take your time here, but this time...) and think about what might happen. At some point declarer will probably lead the suit from dummy and you need to be able to play in tempo. Delaying the analysis until the card is led leaves you no chance to actually do an analysis.

If they are in a suit contract, and you have reason to believe that declarer wants to establish the suit, and there are adequate trumps in dummy, you may want to rise with the A if you are short in the suit...lest you score no tricks.

But generally it is best to duck in tempo, and if you find yourself not having a plan, then duck in tempo is best by a significant margin.

The other scenario is declarer leading towards dummy's KQ.... suit or KJ....suit and you hold the Ace in front of dummy.

One quite reliable guide is that if declarer makes this lead early, in a suit contract, the card is probably a stiff, while if it is late, it is probably good to duck in tempo. Of course, if you see that ducking will lose a trick that won't come back, pop, butmost of the time it will come back.

This is true even against experts because they want to make the defender make a guess before getting deep into the hand, and thus having much more information. However, experts know this too, so the inference isn't as reliable against good players as it is against decent but non-expert players.

In short....every situation requires analysis, but if you can't work it out or just didn't take the time to work it out: duck...smoothly.

On that note, I know some players who have learned that, but they actually duck too quickly! they are so worried about not hitching that they play to the trick faster than they usually do.

[Fluffy]

the biggest mistake is to play the ace quickly, you have no need to play quickly if you are going to play the ace.

[mikeh]

Fluffy, on Jun 13 2010, 04:45 PM, said:

the biggest mistake is to play the ace quickly, you have no need to play quickly if you are going to play the ace.

I disagree...the biggest mistake is to hesitate (telegraphing the A) and then to duck...removing all guesses

[gwnn]

mikeh, on Jun 13 2010, 08:32 PM, said:

One quite reliable guide is that if declarer makes this lead early, in a suit contract, the card is probably a stiff, while if it is late, it is probably good to duck in tempo. Of course, if you see that ducking will lose a trick that won't come back, pop, butmost of the time it will come back.

(snip)

On that note, I know some players who have learned that, but they actually duck too quickly! they are so worried about not hitching that they play to the trick faster than they usually do.

Hey mikeh both of these two apply to me! I am trying to accelerate my spot play when I don't have the ace, because I never seem to find the proper tempo when I have an honour and always play too fast. Is there a good way of evening out my tempo?

[lmilne]

I don't think the extra 3-5 seconds people take (showing the ace) actually helps them think through the situation, I bet most of that time is spent in a "deer in the headlights" phase where they're just realizing they're in a pressure situation.

In theory, playing against familiar opps you could take a little extra time every time a small singleton is led through you, so that when you do take a few seconds to think with the ace you aren't necessarily giving away it's position. But this is bad in practice because a.) those few seconds are unlikely to help you if you haven't already worked it out, b.) you risk being accused of sharp play when you don't have the ace.

To all those people who don't take 10-20 seconds at trick one in third seat (when you have an easy card to play to trick 1), this is the sort of thing you should be using this time for!

P.S. Mike Lawrence does a great discussion of this situation in Dynamic Defence, laying out lots of situations where it can be right to fly, as exceptions to the general rule of smooth duck.

[lmilne]

gwnn, on Jun 13 2010, 07:34 PM, said:

Hey mikeh both of these two apply to me! I am trying to accelerate my spot play when I don't have the ace, because I never seem to find the proper tempo when I have an honour and always play too fast. Is there a good way of evening out my tempo?

I normally just count out half a second (ish) and then play my card, I don't try to play fast or anything. Even tempo is better than fast tempo.

[billw55]

peachy, on Jun 13 2010, 01:00 PM, said:

Lobowolf, on Jun 13 2010, 12:29 PM, said:

I tell students that while either play might be right or wrong, and you have to think about each case individually (preferably not at the key moment), far more tricks are lost by grabbing aces than by ducking them.

Good advice. But then, just tell them to automatically duck unless they already know the reason why they must play ace (setting trick, or get in to return partner's suit or some such valid reason).

Agree. The rule I go by is: duck promptly, unless I have a specific reason to go up that I can clearly explain after the hand

[pooltuna]

billw55, on Jun 14 2010, 07:32 AM, said:

peachy, on Jun 13 2010, 01:00 PM, said:

Lobowolf, on Jun 13 2010, 12:29 PM, said:

I tell students that while either play might be right or wrong, and you have to think about each case individually (preferably not at the key moment), far more tricks are lost by grabbing aces than by ducking them.

Good advice. But then, just tell them to automatically duck unless they already know the reason why they must play ace (setting trick, or get in to return partner's suit or some such valid reason).

Agree. The rule I go by is: duck promptly, unless I have a specific reason to go up that I can clearly explain after the hand

Chant after me (it is a mantra after all ) "Second hand low and don't be slow" I agree with your reasoning for when to snatch an ace. Players should be ready when declarer leads any suit in which you hold an ace and are in second seat. This is the essence of planning the hand.