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We had this auction tonight:
1♥-(P)-2♦-(4♣)
We were unfavorable, if that matters...
What would you bid with: AQxx K1097x Qx Q10
Are doubles still pen?
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Opps preempt our 2/1
#1
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Posted 2010-June-03, 20:50
Kevin Fay
#2
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Posted 2010-June-03, 21:01
I would pass!
#3
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Posted 2010-June-03, 22:07
Pass. Partner knows you opened first seat r/w then couldn't penalty double, rebid H or raise D, so he's got a pretty good idea of what you have.
#4
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Posted 2010-June-03, 22:08
no bid
OK
bed
bed
#5
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Posted 2010-June-03, 23:51
X.
And unless you agreed different, X is still penalty, we are
in a Forcing Pass situation.
With kind regards
Marlowe
And unless you agreed different, X is still penalty, we are
in a Forcing Pass situation.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#6
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Posted 2010-June-04, 02:06
We are in a forcing pass situation.
I don't have a penalty Dbl, I don't have anything else to say, so I'll pass.
I don't have a penalty Dbl, I don't have anything else to say, so I'll pass.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#7
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Posted 2010-June-04, 04:11
Pass, unless I know RHO is a lunatic, in which case I'd double due to club wastage.
#8
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Posted 2010-June-04, 05:32
Pass here is one of the easy bids, it is F as partner made a 2/1 GF. and we have no bid that is adequate other than that pass.
#9
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Posted 2010-June-04, 07:27
Yeah this is basically what I already knew.
On this hand Partner is 4351, bids 4♥ and you are in the wrong game.
Happens, I suppose.
On this hand Partner is 4351, bids 4♥ and you are in the wrong game.
Happens, I suppose.
Kevin Fay
#10
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Posted 2010-June-04, 08:50
Now that we know that, someone will explain how they use super snapdragon double of 4C by opener in this very situation.
.
.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#11
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Posted 2010-June-04, 09:28
kfay, on Jun 4 2010, 08:27 AM, said:
Yeah this is basically what I already knew.
On this hand Partner is 4351, bids 4♥ and you are in the wrong game.
Happens, I suppose.
On this hand Partner is 4351, bids 4♥ and you are in the wrong game.
Happens, I suppose.
I knew that if I read BBF long enough, I'd see a hand on which F******y was the perfect solution!
I'm going to put it back on my card right now!.......or not
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#12
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Posted 2010-June-04, 10:18
mikeh, on Jun 4 2010, 10:28 AM, said:
kfay, on Jun 4 2010, 08:27 AM, said:
Yeah this is basically what I already knew.
On this hand Partner is 4351, bids 4♥ and you are in the wrong game.
Happens, I suppose.
On this hand Partner is 4351, bids 4♥ and you are in the wrong game.
Happens, I suppose.
I knew that if I read BBF long enough, I'd see a hand on which F******y was the perfect solution!
I'm going to put it back on my card right now!.......or not
lol yeah that's what I said afterward
Kevin Fay
#13
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Posted 2010-June-04, 16:26
Why play penalty doubles just because the auction is forcing?
Don't the normal principles apply - i.e. a double which usually doesn't end the auction makes better use of available bidding space than a double that does end the auction?
Don't the normal principles apply - i.e. a double which usually doesn't end the auction makes better use of available bidding space than a double that does end the auction?
#14
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Posted 2010-June-08, 06:54
Quote
Why play penalty doubles just because the auction is forcing?
Don't the normal principles apply - i.e. a double which usually doesn't end the auction makes better use of available bidding space than a double that does end the auction?
Don't the normal principles apply - i.e. a double which usually doesn't end the auction makes better use of available bidding space than a double that does end the auction?
Yeah I am not happy with penalty double here at all.
I don't know what it should show though. Few possibilities:
a)just extras
B)4 spades
c)shortness in their suit
I am happy with c) but I play limited openings. No idea if that fits if opener is still in 11-22 range.
#15
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Posted 2010-June-09, 11:22
1♥-(P)-2♦-(4♣)
AQxx KT97x Qx QT
X sigh that was the easy part now the long winded reasoning
lets take the following auction in to consideration r/w
1h p 2n (jacoby 2n) 5c
this situation is very similar to the above except for the fact that we already have an established trump fit
an immediate x by opener serves as a warning to p that we have 2 or 3 quick
losers in the opponents suit and are minimum for previous bidding (seriously, when is the last time you had KQx AJx AK in the opps suit they bid to the 5 level). The x serves as a warning to partner that bidding on might be dangerous. Partner is then forced to pass for penalty (when it is dangerous to continue because they also have 2/3 quick losers in opps suit) or make some other bid.
An immediate pass by opener shows a willingness to continue bidding (ie due to shortness in opps suit and a minimum OR because they have a holding similar to Ax/Kx in opp suit OR because they are much stronger than minimum and intend to pull any X made by p (concept of pass and pull).
The given auction is the same w/o the safety net of an established trump fit but the
principles would appear to be the same (I can understand why many would feel the
situations are too dissimilar due to lack of fit alone).. If we agree the situations are
similar then it would appear that the correct bid after the 4c bid is X because opener is minimum has 2 quick losers and nothing else special going on.
As an aside if your P had bid 1s (with their 4351) then bid 4h later it would have
been easy to convert to 4s (sometimes 2/1 bidders forget the importance of 44 fits or ignore showing 4 spades because finding a fit 4-4 is against the odds).
AQxx KT97x Qx QT
X sigh that was the easy part now the long winded reasoning
lets take the following auction in to consideration r/w
1h p 2n (jacoby 2n) 5c
this situation is very similar to the above except for the fact that we already have an established trump fit
an immediate x by opener serves as a warning to p that we have 2 or 3 quick
losers in the opponents suit and are minimum for previous bidding (seriously, when is the last time you had KQx AJx AK in the opps suit they bid to the 5 level). The x serves as a warning to partner that bidding on might be dangerous. Partner is then forced to pass for penalty (when it is dangerous to continue because they also have 2/3 quick losers in opps suit) or make some other bid.
An immediate pass by opener shows a willingness to continue bidding (ie due to shortness in opps suit and a minimum OR because they have a holding similar to Ax/Kx in opp suit OR because they are much stronger than minimum and intend to pull any X made by p (concept of pass and pull).
The given auction is the same w/o the safety net of an established trump fit but the
principles would appear to be the same (I can understand why many would feel the
situations are too dissimilar due to lack of fit alone).. If we agree the situations are
similar then it would appear that the correct bid after the 4c bid is X because opener is minimum has 2 quick losers and nothing else special going on.
As an aside if your P had bid 1s (with their 4351) then bid 4h later it would have
been easy to convert to 4s (sometimes 2/1 bidders forget the importance of 44 fits or ignore showing 4 spades because finding a fit 4-4 is against the odds).
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