[whereagles]

655321, on Jun 3 2010, 03:55 PM, said:

Um, whereagles, so you understand the concept of bidding the higher suit first (...)

look, I was just trying to make a point. if you wanna take offense, it's up to you.

[jjbrr]

anything but 1♠ with Jxxx J9xx is bad

[655321]

whereagles, on Jun 3 2010, 08:51 PM, said:

655321, on Jun 3 2010, 03:55 PM, said:

Um, whereagles, so you understand the concept of bidding the higher suit first (...)

look, I was just trying to make a point. if you wanna take offense, it's up to you.

No, I have not taken offence, but it seem my tactless post has given offence, sorry for that.

But the logic remains. You have correctly explained the reasoning for bidding spades before hearts on hands where you want to bid twice, I was not intending to be sarcastic when I said that you understood that. And exactly the same reasoning applies on weaker hands because partner is very likely to force you to bid again.

Anyway, I have probably made enough posts in this thread now.

[whereagles]

I also understand the logics of bidding 1♠, even if weak. I just wouldn't do it unless I was sure pard was in the same wavelength.

One can argue it is "expert standard" but as we all know, experts are the ones who disagree the most lol.

[pirate22]

Having read all---I assume the bidding went--- 1c--x(agree)-p--1h
p --3n/t (??)-p-- P
my plan is x the 1cl---when p bids 1ht and it comes back to me,
I now would bid 2cl-partner may construe we are in buisness,so he shld now bid 2sp and it will come back to you----------I rest my case

Was the question how do we get into spades? the 2cl bid is a 1 round force.
regards im off to my pard now:))) to ask him as responder
regards to all that bid 4spades

[ONEferBRID]

This is one of those special cases where "up-the-line" does not apply with 4-4 in the Majors.

Advancer should show Sp first after partner's T/O DBL.

1) Partner either has a minimum T/O DBL with support for all suits ( so 1S should be fine ); or he has some sort of strong hand that will force me again ( so, I'd like to show my 2nd suit without reversing ).

2) Suppose you bid Hts first:
    (1m) - DBL - ( p ) - 1H
    ( p )  - ?? now if DBLer bid 1S, it would have to show 5+ cards; so the point of bidding "up-th-line" with a major 4-4 does not apply.

[pirate22]

re "one for the bird" reverse x hand ----x sp- 4 hts- 4d- 4cl and pard bids 1sp,
what now for x he can assume p has no 4 card ht suit???and no 4 card d suit.

[ninja89]

pirate22, on 2010-June-05, 12:01, said:

re "one for the bird" reverse x hand ----x sp- 4 hts- 4d- 4cl and pard bids 1sp,
what now for x he can assume p has no 4 card ht suit???and no 4 card d suit.

No, because 1♣ X P 1♠ P 2♣ P 2♥ does not show extra values; advancer can safely pattern out at the two level. 1♣ X P 1♥ P 2♣ P 2♠ shows extras, since it forces the bidding higher. Give doubler AKx AKx AQxxx xx. If you advance "up the line," the auction goes 1♣ X P 1♥ P 2♣ P... now what? Even if you have an agreement that 2♠ doesn't show extras, you get to rest in 3♥ instead of 2♠ had the auction gone 1♣ X P 1♠ P 2♣ P 2♥ P 2♠. In reality, you'd have to rebid 2♥ to avoid showing extras.

As for:

Quote

I now would bid 2cl-partner may construe we are in buisness,so he shld now bid 2sp and it will come back to you

We have two jacks, baby! It's business time! Unless you don't think AKx AKx AQxxx xx is worthy of a cue, here?!

There's lots of good advice in this thread, should probably listen to it IMO.

[Fluffy]

start with 1♦, 1♣ opener never has long diamonds so he will reopen with a double, then we can reopen 1♥ with a double and fin the spade fit.


1♣-1♦-ps-ps
X -ps-1♥-ps
ps-X -ps-1♠
ps-4♠

your everydays auction

[gwnn]

Fluffy, on 2010-October-23, 03:59, said:

start with 1♦, 1♣ opener never has long diamonds so he will reopen with a double, then we can reopen 1♥ with a double and fin the spade fit.


1♣-1♦-ps-ps
X -ps-1♥-ps
ps-X -ps-1♠
ps-4♠

your everydays auction

Even if I somehow accepted that "he never has long diamonds", he often has 2 or 3 diamonds and often in a weak NT. So there's a very good chance that if the auction begins

1♣-1♦-p-p,

it will continue

1♣-1♦-p-p
p*

*in this case coming also from "panic"

[Fluffy]

Don't take my previous post very seriously

But now you raisd the topic, 1♦ outscores 3NT