BBO Discussion Forums: your plan with this biggie? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

your plan with this biggie?

#1 User is offline   billw55 

  • enigmatic
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,757
  • Joined: 2009-July-31
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2010-June-01, 14:56

From a regional this weekend - IMPs, nobody vul, you hold:

AQxx
x
AKQJ
AQJx

RHO deals and opens 1. Your plan?
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
-gwnn
0

#2 User is offline   georgeac 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 135
  • Joined: 2007-September-02

Posted 2010-June-01, 15:02

i would x.
0

#3 User is offline   jjbrr 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,525
  • Joined: 2009-March-30
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2010-June-01, 15:59

saw it off
OK
bed
0

#4 User is offline   Phil 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,092
  • Joined: 2008-December-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas, USA
  • Interests:Mountain Biking

Posted 2010-June-01, 16:20

Double then 2N over 1H. Pretty sure some 'theorists' might suggest 2D after 1H but that's not my style.
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
0

#5 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,071
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2010-June-01, 16:36

double

what happens next depends on what lho/cho/rho do before the auction returns to me.

nobody psyches 1 w/w at imps 1st seat, so we have reason to believe that it will probably go (P) minimum bid (P), and the minimum will usually be hearts.

I'm with Phil as to 2N, and with putting quote marks around 'theorists' to describe any idiot who suggests a non-forcing, misdescriptive 2.

If LHO bids 1, and partner passes, the good news is that rho has to bid (in most methods, 1 is forcing). I won't tell you what I'll do over various actions, in order to avoid looking sillier than usual. I will double 1N, that much I will confess...and I will sit for partner then doubling a runout to 2.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#6 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,027
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2010-June-01, 16:51

double :)
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#7 User is offline   pooltuna 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,814
  • Joined: 2009-July-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Orleans

Posted 2010-June-01, 19:21

gwnn, on Jun 1 2010, 05:51 PM, said:

double :)

yep the first call is really tough :)
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

George Bernard Shaw
0

#8 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2010-June-02, 02:14

dbl + 3NT if pard bids hearts.
0

#9 User is offline   billw55 

  • enigmatic
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,757
  • Joined: 2009-July-31
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2010-June-02, 13:31

whereagles, on Jun 2 2010, 03:14 AM, said:

dbl + 3NT if pard bids hearts.

That's what happened at the table. Down one, partner tabled J9xx and Jxxx. I wonder how I could have reached a spade contract.
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
-gwnn
0

#10 User is offline   gordontd 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,485
  • Joined: 2009-July-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London

Posted 2010-June-02, 13:36

Teach your partner to respond 1 with those hands.

And perhaps you should have rebid 2 - after all it would have been correct for your partner to respond 1 with 4-5 in the majors. In any case, 3NT seems like a mild overbid.
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
0

#11 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2010-June-02, 15:38

billw55, on Jun 2 2010, 07:31 PM, said:

whereagles, on Jun 2 2010, 03:14 AM, said:

dbl + 3NT if pard bids hearts.

That's what happened at the table. Down one, partner tabled J9xx and Jxxx. I wonder how I could have reached a spade contract.

Perhaps one could cuebid over 1. Then, if pard bids 2, you get there. But that's always much easier afterwards.

As for replying 1 from the beginning, it would solve this particular case but generate the mirror problem if opener's majors were swapped.

There are some hands with 44 majors with which it is preferable to bid 1, intending to bid hearts later. However, this isn't one of them.
0

#12 User is offline   jjbrr 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,525
  • Joined: 2009-March-30
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2010-June-02, 18:36

billw55, on Jun 2 2010, 01:31 PM, said:

whereagles, on Jun 2 2010, 03:14 AM, said:

dbl + 3NT if pard bids hearts.

That's what happened at the table. Down one, partner tabled J9xx and Jxxx. I wonder how I could have reached a spade contract.

lol
OK
bed
0

#13 User is offline   655321 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,502
  • Joined: 2007-December-22

Posted 2010-June-02, 19:30

whereagles, on Jun 2 2010, 04:38 PM, said:

billw55, on Jun 2 2010, 07:31 PM, said:

partner tabled J9xx and Jxxx.

There are some hands with 44 majors with which it is preferable to bid 1, intending to bid hearts later. However, this isn't one of them.

Sorry, I don't understand, is it the 9 that makes this hand an exception?
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
0

#14 User is offline   kfay 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,208
  • Joined: 2007-July-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan
  • Interests:Science, Sports

Posted 2010-June-02, 20:47

TWSS!!!

BTW with a really weak hand and 4-4 majors you bid 1, that's just.... everyone should know that.
Kevin Fay
0

#15 User is offline   twcho 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 327
  • Joined: 2003-September-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hong Kong

Posted 2010-June-02, 21:44

kfay, on Jun 3 2010, 10:47 AM, said:

TWSS!!!

BTW with a really weak hand and 4-4 majors you bid 1, that's just.... everyone should know that.

Really? I will bid 1 for weak hand with 44M and pass partner's 1 rebid.
0

#16 User is offline   kfay 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,208
  • Joined: 2007-July-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan
  • Interests:Science, Sports

Posted 2010-June-02, 21:48

twcho, on Jun 2 2010, 10:44 PM, said:

kfay, on Jun 3 2010, 10:47 AM, said:

TWSS!!!

BTW with a really weak hand and 4-4 majors you bid 1, that's just.... everyone should know that.

Really? I will bid 1 for weak hand with 44M and pass partner's 1 rebid.

You will be wrong.

No offense, especially in this case. I mean if partner had opened a 12 HCP 1 I would find a way to raise usually with 4-card support and a doubleton, but I'm not going to raise when he shows like 18+ HCP?

But the whole point of this is when partner decides to cuebid and now I want to bid 2 NF but it's starting to sound like I have values because I am pushing the level. I guess I could live with this also being 4-4 very bad but frankly I'd much rather play it the other way since now I can bid 2 forcing and lose nothing.
Kevin Fay
0

#17 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2010-June-03, 09:04

655321, on Jun 3 2010, 01:30 AM, said:

whereagles, on Jun 2 2010, 04:38 PM, said:

billw55, on Jun 2 2010, 07:31 PM, said:

partner tabled J9xx and Jxxx.

There are some hands with 44 majors with which it is preferable to bid 1, intending to bid hearts later. However, this isn't one of them.

Sorry, I don't understand, is it the 9 that makes this hand an exception?

No. The type is the one below. Say you hold

Kxxx
KQxx
xxx
xx

and it goes

1 dbl 2 ??

Suppose you bid 2 and it continues

1 . dbl . 2 . 2
3m pass pass ??

Now you're in a bit of a quandry as to whether you should bid 3, as pard can have only 3 of those. Had you bid 2 before it could now go

1 . dbl . 2 . 2
3m pass pass 3

and pard will pass/correct this to assure you land in the 44 fit.
0

#18 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,071
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2010-June-03, 09:27

I doubt that many good players would advocate advancing 1 with weak 4-4 majors (or decent 4-4 either).

In the OP, we should always bid 1 and it doesn't take much thought to see why.

1. Opener may bid again: say he bids 2 (of course that is unlikely on tha actual hand but advancer doesn't know this). Doubler will double again with a good hand and only 3 cards in our major. Do we really want to have to bid 2, having started 1? Or would we prefer to bid 2, having responded 1?

In addition, the 'reverse' can usefully be played as suggesting extra values, especially if the double could be on a strong 3=3=5=2

And opener might rebid 1N. This is low frequency but can happen when we hold a horrible hand and responder has zero or near zero. Now partner doubles and we either leave it in or we pull: it would be far more comfortable to pull to our second suit of hearts rather than our second suit of spades.

2. And more important: opener may pass and partner cue-bids. It probably doesn't matter which suit we responded in if partner has 4+ support, but when his cue bid is still trying to find a fit, it will be more efficient to have responded 1 on 4-4. We can reserve hearts then spades for 4=5 or wilder

3. A 3rd layout involves our having a stronger hand....on which if opener rebid 2 and partner passed, we'd want to compete: now 1 is mandatory so as to be able to reopen with 2.

Those who argue that 1 is best because we can pass 1 are aiming at a very, very narrow target. If our hand is so weak that we can't raise a hand that doubled and bid its own major, why do we assume that his major is spades? What if it's hearts? Now when we respond 1, he's likely to go crazy, while if we respond 1, we get to pass 2 if that is our intention. In short, this argument is exactly balanced: we want to bid the suit he doesn't have, and if we are 4=4 very weak, we cannot draw any inference as to which major he is more likely to hold.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#19 User is offline   655321 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,502
  • Joined: 2007-December-22

Posted 2010-June-03, 09:55

Um, whereagles, so you understand the concept of bidding the higher suit first when you may want to (voluntarily) bid both suits, that is good. It is only a small step now to understanding that the same concept applies when you may have to (involuntarily) bid both suits, as explained by kfay and mikeh in this very thread, and thus your claim:

whereagles, on Jun 2 2010, 04:38 PM, said:

There are some hands with 44 majors with which it is preferable to bid 1, intending to bid hearts later. However, this isn't one of them.

is incorrect.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
0

#20 User is offline   Phil 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,092
  • Joined: 2008-December-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas, USA
  • Interests:Mountain Biking

Posted 2010-June-03, 10:02

655321, on Jun 3 2010, 10:55 AM, said:

Um, whereagles, so you understand the concept of bidding the higher suit first when you may want to (voluntarily) bid both suits, that is good. It is only a small step now to understanding that the same concept applies when you may have to (involuntarily) bid both suits, as explained by kfay and mikeh in this very thread, and thus your claim:

whereagles, on Jun 2 2010, 04:38 PM, said:

There are some hands with 44 majors with which it is preferable to bid 1, intending to bid hearts later. However, this isn't one of them.

is incorrect.

Now be nice, Whereagles is closing in on 10K, and we wouldn't want to spoil the party :P

Agree with bidding spades with 4-4.

I don't know where a lot of the "bid the lower ranking suit holding 4-4" came from, but it has permeated a lot of (incorrect) bidding theory. I'm pretty sure Gwnn or his challenger Mohitz could find some old threads - hey maybe even pclayton suggested it :)
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
0

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

17 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 17 guests, 0 anonymous users