[andrei]

Aberlour10, on Jun 20 2010, 10:22 AM, said:

Viewing the situation in the Group A....I tend to bet some real  € on the draw in the match Mexico vs Uruguay

Would Mexico be satisfied with playing Argentina in last 16 instead of South Korea?

[Cascade]

cherdanno, on Jun 21 2010, 08:49 AM, said:

Cascade, on Jun 20 2010, 12:32 PM, said:

He held the guys shirt but the Italian dived after he let go.  I have seen players booked for that sort of dive.

There was another dive in midfield.

Mmmmm once the NZ players start learning to make a header without using their elbow you would earn the right to complain. (I think Rory Fallon was really lucky not to get sent off by a second yellow card.)

Also, it was a clear penalty IMO. And the NZ goal was both offside and helped by an offensive foul.

Its not like it was one sided.

There were Italians with their arms in the faces of NZers and not even a free kick.

I am not sure what is needed for a penalty but the Italian was not even impeded let alone felled by the Italian. Yes he had his shirt but he was completely free before the ball got near. Further I doubt that the penalty came as the result of anything the NZer did but that it simply came because the Italian threw himself on the ground.

If you look at a full replay you will see the Italian pushing Smith toward the incoming ball (which presumably is a foul) before the players came back the other way and Smith had his shirt for a brief moment. One commentator said if you give a penalty for that everytime it happens you will give a lot of penalties.

It seems rather harsh that a penalty was given and Smith was given a yellow card in what to my eyes appears to be at best a 50-50 situation - the Italians push was worse than the kiwis brief hold of the shirt.

Ryan Nelson in a post match interview certainly believed that the officiating was poor. And further that he knew it would be because the referee would give the advantage to the name team.

After Reid's touch with his head when Smeltz was in an offside position the ball was played by an Italian before Smeltz ever interferred with the play. That play was with the hand of the Italian. Therefore a handball occurred before there was ever an offside and justice would have been a legitmate penalty.

[gwnn]

I rooted for NZ but for me that was a clear penalty, you just shouldn't pull other players' shirts inside your area, life is simple. Pushing is one thing, pulling shirts is something else. Just my two eurocents.

[cherdanno]

Wayne if you pull someone's shirt in the box and you get caught it's a penalty. Doesn't matter whether the other player falls or not.
If you really think it didn't impede the Italian I invite you to try jumping for a header while I am holding your shirt briefly.

[Rossoneri]

mgoetze, on Jun 20 2010, 09:47 PM, said:

Brazil vs. Ivory Coast: not enough red cards.

Yeah, some of the Ivory Coast players should have walked instead. Towards the end, they looked like they were more interested in fighting than playing football.

[Cascade]

cherdanno, on Jun 21 2010, 09:03 PM, said:

Wayne if you pull someone's shirt in the box and you get caught it's a penalty. Doesn't matter whether the other player falls or not.
If you really think it didn't impede the Italian I invite you to try jumping for a header while I am holding your shirt briefly.

I guess the problem is that there was more than one foul or cautionable offense that occurred in the incident and it seems wrong to pick on just one.

de Rossi was pushing Smith
Smith was holding de Rossi's shirt

Iaquinta was pushing Elliot and possibly holding his shirt
Elliot was probably pushing back

de Rossi attempted to deceive the referee by diving

There is something wrong when one of these offenses and possibly not the worst is punished severely and the others are left unpunished. It is particularly bad when the offense that is punished is picked on or at least perceived to be picked on because the opponent deliberately tries to deceive the referee.

[Aberlour10]

ajajaj the Great Leader is surely not amused.

[gwnn]

Federer's not gonna catch the Swiss game at this rate!!!

[Aberlour10]

but there are 10.000 swiss cowbells in stadium. no chance for vuvuzelas.

[pooltuna]

mgoetze, on Jun 20 2010, 03:47 PM, said:

Brazil vs. Ivory Coast: not enough red cards.

So What if these guys are major overbidders. This particular forum is about soccer!!

[gwnn]

For those of you who might have missed England vs Algeria

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2...d-algeria-brick

[cherdanno]

Cascade, on Jun 21 2010, 07:10 AM, said:

cherdanno, on Jun 21 2010, 09:03 PM, said:

Wayne if you pull someone's shirt in the box and you get caught it's a penalty. Doesn't matter whether the other player falls or not.
If you really think it didn't impede the Italian I invite you to try jumping for a header while I am holding your shirt briefly.

I guess the problem is that there was more than one foul or cautionable offense that occurred in the incident and it seems wrong to pick on just one.

de Rossi was pushing Smith
Smith was holding de Rossi's shirt

Iaquinta was pushing Elliot and possibly holding his shirt
Elliot was probably pushing back

de Rossi attempted to deceive the referee by diving

There is something wrong when one of these offenses and possibly not the worst is punished severely and the others are left unpunished. It is particularly bad when the offense that is punished is picked on or at least perceived to be picked on because the opponent deliberately tries to deceive the referee.

I think you still don't get it. Pushing is always unclear, and doesn't always lead to a whistle. When someone pulls a shirt, it leads to a whistle every single time the referee sees it. The NZ defender was just stupid, and the referee would have called the penalty regardless of whether the Italian would fall or not.

[mgoetze]

cherdanno, on Jun 20 2010, 09:49 PM, said:

(I think Rory Fallon was really lucky not to get sent off by a second yellow card.)

I think the NZ coach was really stupid not to take him off the field earlier. He obviously didn't understand that his behaviour was very risky.

I would have given Kaka red as well (rather than a second yellow), because it was obviously intentional and had nothing whatsoever to do with the game, but it probably wouldn't have happened if Ivory Coast had gotten 2 reds before...

Anyway, when's the last time someone won 7:0 at the WC?

[gwnn]

2002 Germany Saudi Arabia 80

Kaka really didnt deserve that red card.

[Aberlour10]

Vive La Farce

[matmat]

Aberlour10, on Jun 22 2010, 09:37 AM, said:

Vive La Farce

they're looking pretty dead out there right now.

[matmat]

cherdanno, on Jun 21 2010, 12:51 PM, said:

I think you still don't get it. Pushing is always unclear, and doesn't always lead to a whistle. When someone pulls a shirt, it leads to a whistle every single time the referee sees it. The NZ defender was just stupid, and the referee would have called the penalty regardless of whether the Italian would fall or not.

I am not so much opposed to giving a penalty for that infraction; it was justified to do so. I would, however, like to see a caution to the Italian for embellishing. I really want to see FIFA crack down on simulation.

[jjbrr]

gwnn, on Jun 22 2010, 06:17 AM, said:

2002 Germany Saudi Arabia 80

Kaka really didnt deserve that red card.

I really wish they could go back and look at tape after the game and withdraw Kaka's red card and instead suspend the other guy for the next game. It might cut down on flops and dives.

[jjbrr]

But then Italy would be hopeless.

[Aberlour10]

another stolen goal.