[kgr]

Scoring: MP

---

The bidding:
1D-1H
2C-??

2C: does promise 12-17 HCP. 5 card D and normally 4 card Club (but can be 3 card occasionally). Responder can pass with minimum.

You have agreed:
2NT: 11 HCP
2S: 4th suit forcing

What do you choose? Different choice if IMPs?

FYI: It continued...
1D-1H
2C-2NT
3NT
South had 16 HCP , 6 card D and 4 card Club. 3NT was down 2 when diamonds didn't break (but could make with diamond 3-3).

[Flame]

pass

[Free]

What is wrong with Pass? You have 8HCP, misfit, poor 5 card suit, no 4-4♠ fit, partner is minimum,... I don't see the problem here

[kgr]

Problem with Pass:
- partner can have up to 17 HCP
- partner can have 3 card Club
- If partner has 4 clubs you play in 4-3 fit clubs, while you can have 5-2 or 5-3 fit in Hearts, which scores better (MP!!)
- It feels like you will get a bad MP score if you pass 2C
....
So Pass is not perfect, but maybe it's the best.

[inquiry]

kgr, on Jul 27 2004, 09:53 AM, said:

Problem with Pass:
- partner can have up to 17 HCP
- partner can have 3 card Club
- If partner has 4 clubs you play in 4-3 fit clubs, while you can have 5-2 or 5-3 fit in Hearts, which scores better (MP!!)
- It feels like you will get a bad MP score if you pass 2C
....
So Pass is not perfect, but maybe it's the best.

If your partner is 5-4 (or better in the minors), 2♥ is not going to be the place to play the hand.. if he was 1-3-5-4 he would (or at least should) raise 1♥ to 2.

If partner was 3-2-5-3, surely he would bid 1NT rather than a three card club suit... ESPECIALLY since this is Matchponts. If partner was 3-1-5-4 it is a matter of partnership style given matchpoint scoring if 1NT or 2♣ I guess. I can't imagine a hnad where you belong in 2♥ with this hand and partner bids 2♣. IF you and your partners refuse to raise on three card support when short in spades (say 1-3-5-4 or 2-3-5-3), maybe you need to rethink your bidding structure. The good news, this is another auction (when to raise on three card support) covered nciely in the Robson/Segal book I gave you a link to in another post today.

Ben

[whereagles]

Pass seems best. However, if you absolutely don't want to miss a game, but are afraid 2NT is too much of a strenght distortion, you can bid 2D(!!). This distorts your shape, but has the virtue of leaving the final decision to pard, who's still quite unlimited. You'll pass rebids of 2NT, 3D and 2H, but can stand a 3NT bid by pard, and will raise a 3H bid to 4.

[paulhar]

I pass too. Sometimes your partner is maximum and you are play 2C with 26 points, but that isn't so awful on a misfit. Especially at matchpoints.

[EricK]

kgr, on Jul 27 2004, 01:53 PM, said:

Problem with Pass:
- partner can have up to 17 HCP
- partner can have 3 card Club
- If partner has 4 clubs you play in 4-3 fit clubs, while you can have 5-2 or 5-3 fit in Hearts, which scores better (MP!!)
- It feels like you will get a bad MP score if you pass 2C
....
So Pass is not perfect, but maybe it's the best.

To answer your points one by one:

- Partner "never" has the best possible hand
- He "never" has the worst possible hand either
- If partner has a semi-fit, you won't get to play in ♥ at a low enough level
- It might seem to opps that defending 2♣ is bad and they will protect.

All in all, pass is probably the best call.

Eric

[inquiry]

Kgr was right. On this hand there is no good bid.. so make "no bid"... or, in other words, pass.

[Free]

whereagles, on Jul 27 2004, 03:11 PM, said:

Pass seems best. However, if you absolutely don't want to miss a game, but are afraid 2NT is too much of a strenght distortion, you can bid 2D(!!). This distorts your shape, but has the virtue of leaving the final decision to pard, who's still quite unlimited. You'll pass rebids of 2NT, 3D and 2H, but can stand a 3NT bid by pard, and will raise a 3H bid to 4.

Seems like you're quite optimistic. Who says p will bid again after 2♦? If he has a minimum hand, you're screwed bigtime, while I think 2♣ is a playable contract. 2♦ is NOT an option imo!

[paulhar]

A 2D bid gives you the advantage that you'll have something to talk about for years. If your partner opens 1D on x-x-4-5 hands, you will have taken yourself out of your 8-card fit to play in your opponents' 8-card fit.

[kgr]

Quote

If your partner opens 1D on x-x-4-5

We play 5card M and 4 card D. Open 1C can be as short as 2 card. We will never open 1D with x-x-4-5

Quote

- Partner "never" has the best possible hand
- He "never" has the worst possible hand either

Maybe obvious, but interesting to remember while bidding! It will lead to the percentage decision.

[PriorKnowledge]

Given your system, out of 10 experts, I don't think a single one would bid again.
2D is silly. Clubs are better. You only have 8. You are hardly protecting anything. Even if partner is a strong 17 you probably don't have game.
2D is real silly. Why bother have a partner if you can't count on them to pick which of your suits they like best.
2N promises 10hcp. you only have 8. You are lying to partner.
Did I mention that you only have 8hcp AND a probably misfit?

Your system is simple. Responder with <10hcp can pass, bid 2D with equal or better diams or 2H with 6h. 2N is not an option.

Learn your system.

[luke warm]

kgr, on Jul 27 2004, 11:24 PM, said:

We will never open 1D with x-x-4-5

i would, with an 11/12 count only...with 12-14 i open int.. with 15, 16 it's 1d then 1nt, with 17, 18 it's 1c then either 1nt or 2d

on the bidding shown, i'd pass 2c

[Cascade]

inquiry, on Jul 28 2004, 05:19 AM, said:

Kgr was right. On this hand there is no good bid.. so make "no bid"... or, in other words, pass.

This is not always sound advice.

[inquiry]

Cascade, on Jul 27 2004, 09:43 PM, said:

inquiry, on Jul 28 2004, 05:19 AM, said:

Kgr was right. On this hand there is no good bid.. so  make "no bid"... or, in other words, pass.

This is not always sound advice.

Play on the use of "no bid" in some old bridge books for pass. I wasn't suggesting everytime you don't have a good actual bid you should pass... :-)

[Cascade]

inquiry, on Jul 28 2004, 01:54 PM, said:

I wasn't suggesting everytime you don't have a good actual bid you should pass... :-)

I know. I just wanted to make that clear.

[whereagles]

PriorKnowledge, on Jul 27 2004, 10:40 PM, said:

Given your system, out of 10 experts, I don't think a single one would bid again.
2D is silly. Clubs are better. You only have 8. You are hardly protecting anything. Even if partner is a strong 17 you probably don't have game.
2D is real silly. Why bother have a partner if you can't count on them to pick which of your suits they like best.
2N promises 10hcp. you only have 8. You are lying to partner.
Did I mention that you only have 8hcp AND a probably misfit?

Your system is simple. Responder with <10hcp can pass, bid 2D with equal or better diams or 2H with 6h. 2N is not an option.

Learn your system.

LOL

You seriously lack imagination. Out of your five reasons to discard 2D, only one is relevant (game unlikely, even opposite 17). The others show you didn't yet realize there's more to bridge than following a set of rules.

[Fluffy]

Clear pass:

Because if parrtner is strong we have sing in his long suit so we won´t make game even then.

Because we make many tricks playing in ♣, if partner has 2♥ 110 equals 110, while 130/110 outscores -50 if he has singleton. If partner has 3♥ 110 still outscores -50 to 3♥.

[Trpltrbl]

Pass, nothing to say.
Only if I am down 60 imps with 4 hands to go I might go on. Luckily I have never been in that situation

Mike