[cherdanno]

Is there any chance to convince the moderators to move this thread to a different forum?

[H_KARLUK]

mikeh, on May 12 2010, 12:08 PM, said:

Quote

As MikeH says, there's plenty to learn about on here. Many times, we have all gone down in flames defending a position that was undefensible. MikeH is doing this currently on the "would you allow the raise to 6" thread (haha JK  )

Aha! Read the thread again, you troll! (jk). My p.o.v. seems to be gaining support!

More seriously, I like your post, Phil. I tried to reason with karluk by a pm, but it is obvious that there is a conceptual gap at work here. I suspect that this may be reflected in his signature: those who profess absolute certainty seem rarely able to entertain conflicting ideas.

When a foo appears, here or in the WC, it is usually best to ignore them, since all attempts to engage them in discussion merely provoke more posts.


oh....since that's often my response to those who dare to disagree with me, maybe I'm a f......

As I said who cares who slapped th other's back, personally i don't care such pattern.

#1 - You are a troll
#2 - Nah, i believe u r th same

That goes till to morning but kids sleep in their beds, and the world is still safe.

Moreover funny guys believe everybody entitled to their opinion.

Get a life should be th correct advise.

[gwnn]

What does this mean? I do not wish to imply that your English is bad, I think it is my English comprehension that is bad. I simply don't understand your last post.

[junyi_zhu]

flytoox, on May 11 2010, 03:18 AM, said:

Sitting east, you hold:

Scoring: IMP

---

North opened 1S, what do you bid?

PASS, 2D, or DBL?

Double or 2D are both fine IMO. Pass is too chicken. 2D is good when partner has some D support and is able to raise you. Double is good when partner holds a weakish hand without D support. 2D may lead to some huge penalties when you are unlucky, still it's rare. Double may shut you out after 1S x 2S p p. Also, double isn't really that safe after 1S, when you get redoubled, you still may not find your best trump fit and suffer a large number.

[H_KARLUK]

gwnn, on May 12 2010, 12:16 PM, said:

What does this mean? I do not wish to imply that your English is bad, I think it is my English comprehension that is bad. I simply don't understand your last post.

Nowadays, you don't understand many things for example a very poor grammar Turkish language text posted by Phil but you say "good idea" in Turkish Language.

To be fair "that's weird".

[gwnn]

I translated Phil's post with google translate and then translated English back to Turkish. I couldn't translate your last post to anything.

post in question said:

As I said who cares who slapped th other's back, personally i don't care such pattern.

#1 - You are a troll
#2 - Nah, i believe u r th same

That goes till to morning but kids sleep in their beds, and the world is still safe.

Moreover funny guys believe everyboy entitled to their opinion.

Get a life should be th correct advise.

I understand every word from this, but overall I don't understand what it means. I would say I understand almost no single sentence from this, let alone the text.

[hanp]

Go easy on the old man please, Turkish s not his native language.

[H_KARLUK]

junyi_zhu, on May 12 2010, 12:20 PM, said:

flytoox, on May 11 2010, 03:18 AM, said:

Sitting east, you hold:

Dealer: North Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ 72 ♥ QJ9 ♦ AK965 ♣ AT3

North opened 1S, what do you bid?

PASS, 2D, or DBL?

Double or 2D are both fine IMO. Pass is too chicken. 2D is good when partner has some D support and is able to raise you. Double is good when partner holds a weakish hand without D support. 2D may lead to some huge penalties when you are unlucky, still it's rare. Double may shut you out after 1S x 2S p p. Also, double isn't really that safe after 1S, when you get redoubled, you still may not find your best trump fit and suffer a large number.

Thanks.

[junyi_zhu]

Jlall, on May 11 2010, 09:30 PM, said:

awm, on May 11 2010, 04:10 PM, said:

Somewhat off track, but supposing you hold the example hand and double, then hear 1NT from partner... do you raise to 2NT?

It seems that 3NT is actually decent opposite several of the example hands.

Obviously the decision of whether to raise should depend on the range of 1NT, but while I believe this should be something like 6-9 (i.e. same as after an opening), I've heard a lot of people claim that they prefer 8-11 or similar. Won't this hand make game fairly frequently opposite 10-11 points with spades stopped?

I am one of those who advocates a very sound range for 1N, but even I give leeway for partner when the suit is spades, and we are NV so whatever, I wouldn't raise. I do think we will often miss game opposite 10-11 counts though.

I would 100 % raise if we had the same hand except 3325 and it went 1D X p 1N p ?

There are some problems with 6-7 HCP and no good suits to bid. I used to play 1NT to show 8-10, then I realized that it's probably better to lower it to 6 - bad 10, because a lot of 6-7 HCP hands are hard to bid.

[H_KARLUK]

hanp, on May 12 2010, 12:25 PM, said:

Go easy on the old man please, Turkish s not his native language.

No problem, i do not want him to discourage about Turkish Language especially after he kindly asked me not to ridicule him in public when we were JEC kibbers after he made an unlucky comment while seeing 52 cards. Do i tell th truth Phil? Honestly yes or no? Tho he said quit to post on BBF seems changed his minds and still believe here has different rulz. Wow, funny!

But that would be unfair not to tell what the real issue was. Can you imagine somebody as 3rd party one doesn't understand your language but auto tells "good idea" in a foreign language.

I have no more words about that funny situation, shrug!

Edit : Omg, just i read 3rd party's post. Seems he thinks he as a Rumenian one knows Turkish language better than me (I am a Turkish Man, 55 y.o.) when I say very poor grammar (Turkish poster owner "Phil" not also a Turkish citizen), tries to show Google translator (ROFL) like a very firm evidence and trusts Phil's post in Turkish language. What an understanding!! Cheez n crackers. Don't mess up anymorra! Enough!!

[MFA]

X.
2♦ is a very bad bid in my opinion.

[gwnn]

H_KARLUK, on May 12 2010, 04:29 PM, said:

Seems he thinks he as a Rumenian one knows Turkish language better than me (I am a Turkish Man, 55 y.o.) when I say very poor grammar (Turkish poster owner "Phil" not also a Turkish citizen), tries to show Google translator (ROFL) like a very firm evidence and trusts Phil's post in Turkish language. What an understanding!! Cheez n crackers. Don't mess up anymorra! Enough!!

what? Where did I ever say that? Also what do you mean by "show Google translator (ROFL) like a very firm evidence"? This is the main problem with your posts, I can't understand them, and I don't think I am alone in this. You use English words but they are arranged in a peculiar order and the sentences you write do not compose a coherent text.

Anyway, my point was that Phil+google translate is better Turkish than H_KARLUK English.

[H_KARLUK]

gwnn, on May 12 2010, 02:36 PM, said:

H_KARLUK, on May 12 2010, 04:29 PM, said:

Seems he thinks he as a Rumenian one knows Turkish language better than me (I am a Turkish Man, 55 y.o.) when I say very poor grammar (Turkish poster owner "Phil" not also a Turkish citizen), tries to show Google translator (ROFL) like a very firm evidence and trusts Phil's post in Turkish language. What an understanding!! Cheez n crackers. Don't mess up anymorra! Enough!!

what? Where did I ever say that?

Forget about it. I was not alone to pick 2D. Even I may be alone, no big deal. You decided to pick and tried to attack me in a pattern. But that won't make you or anyone "th big".

You seem everytime bid and did everything correct in your life. Tho i dissent bcause when you invited me to play a tournament i remember after th game you said "sorry partner for my some bad plays" , honestly, right?

Feel free to be proud of with yourself, what a character.

[gwnn]

I am not proud of myself. I do not think I am wonderful, that my opinions when it comes to bridge are good or even OK. I am the worst bridge player in the universe. What does it matter who I am, how old I am, who my mother is, how many girlfriends I have had? Why do you need to talk about these stuff? It is not that I find this offensive or disturbing. I just find it boring and tiresome to try to read your posts sometimes when I ask you one simple question, 4 English words, then I get this long long reply, maybe 10% about bridge, 50% indecipherable, and 40% about Romania, Turkey, poets, religion, my family, my age, most of the time these three parts are of course mixed together, I see a bid, then 3 words in English that I don't see how they belong in this context, then some philosophy, then some weird typo, then some more bridge, .... It really is difficult to read you know?

I just asked you a simple question, then you started writing posts I did not really understand but you started talking about me me me me and how young and impertinent and proud I was. I was just asking you about the 2D bid, you started talking about countries and children and personal character. I don't see what all this means.

[Jlall]

How is this guy not banned, or at the very least his posts in this thread deleted? He just completely hijacked this thread with nonsense. What a joke, if there were ever any time for moderation...

All,

Flytoox is a very old forum member. I used to always like reading his posts. It's a shame that when he comes back, this is what happens to his thread. I apologize for my part in instigating some of this, but out of respect for flytoox can we just ignore the trolls?

Flytoox,

It is funny because this is one of my "pet peeves" when people overcall rather than double with this shape. I'd go so far as to say almost all experts double, and most non-experts overcall.

Doubling is much more flexible with this hand, and does not risk getting to a silly fit ever. It not only increases your chance of getting to a good fit (or NT), it increases your safety level (imagine how bad p p X p p p would be in 2D). Yes, sometimes you will get to 2H in a 4-3 fit, but that's not the end of the world. It's funny that people fear that so much but don't fear 5-1 diamond fits.

If partner has the values for game it probably won't matter much which choice you choose.

[junyi_zhu]

Jlall, on May 12 2010, 07:17 PM, said:

How is this guy not banned, or at the very least his posts in this thread deleted? He just completely hijacked this thread with nonsense. What a joke, if there were ever any time for moderation...

All,

Flytoox is a very old forum member. I used to always like reading his posts. It's a shame that when he comes back, this is what happens to his thread. I apologize for my part in instigating some of this, but out of respect for flytoox can we just ignore the trolls?

Flytoox,

It is funny because this is one of my "pet peeves" when people overcall rather than double with this shape. I'd go so far as to say almost all experts double, and most non-experts overcall.

Doubling is much more flexible with this hand, and does not risk getting to a silly fit ever. It not only increases your chance of getting to a good fit (or NT), it increases your safety level (imagine how bad p p X p p p would be in 2D). Yes, sometimes you will get to 2H in a 4-3 fit, but that's not the end of the world. It's funny that people fear that so much but don't fear 5-1 diamond fits.

If partner has the values for game it probably won't matter much which choice you choose.

Although I slightly prefer double, the claim that all experts would double with this hand is too strong a claim to me. You can actually win this hand by bidding 2D, for example:
1S 2D 2S 3D with xxx Kxxx xxxx Kx, after a double, it's certainly not easy to find 3D.
2D looks like a natural bid with a fine 5 card suit and adequate playing value IMO. Suppose in an indy, my unknown partner overcalls 2D with this hand, I just don't think I can judge from this bid that he isn't a good player.

[jdonn]

Gwnn you are too nice. As for H_Karluk he should be banned. I have one mother and that is quite enough, I don't need another who does nothing but lecture people who haven't done anything wrong, about a topic he doesn't understand in a language he doesn't understand.

[flytoox]

Scoring: IMP

---

Let's try to get back to bridge itself.

The full hand is shown above.

I choose dbl at the table and lefty passed, pd bid 2C and was passed around to south, now he dbled and was passed out. down 2.

Pass would be the winning call with this hand, but I still think do sth will win more than lose.

As many of you reasoned (not just claim), dbl is better than 2D I think.

Another interesting question is: should West bid 1N or 2C with that holding?

I am very happy one of poster (awm) raised the follow-up question and would be more happy to read you all's opinions about the pros and cons of 1N vs 2C.

[gwnn]

At the risk of sounding dogmatic and abusive, I think 1NT from West is a bad bid. 1NT should show a nominal range of roughly 8-10 points with average 11 counts and average 7 counts routinely included if you don't have a good alternative. A crappy 4 count should not ever be included.

[Jlall]

junyi_zhu, on May 12 2010, 06:08 PM, said:

You can actually win this hand by bidding 2D, for example:
1S 2D 2S 3D with xxx Kxxx xxxx Kx, after a double, it's certainly not easy to find 3D.

The standard for a bid to be good or possibly good shouldn't be that you can win sometimes by bidding it. You can also win easily opening 1N with balanced 20 counts etc (I can give you an example if you like!).

I think you can determine that your partner is not a world class player if he bids 2D. I suppose he could be an expert, most experts have some obvious flaws, especially if they are old and play an oldschool style, so there are few bids that one could make that could make you determine they are not an expert just based on that.