[Valardent]

Hi,

I'm looking for some help to unveil ambiguity as much as possible about Queen/Jack location.

This is the framework :

2 balanced hands, enough HCP to declare 6NT(with all Aces&Kings). The goal is to detect a play for seven thanks to a dcb-type tool.

Example :

ADx Rx
Axxx RDx
Dxx ARV10x
Rxx A9x

1NT(15-17), 2♠
2NT(mini), 3♦ ctrl 1-2 ask
3♠(5 ctrl), 4♣ relay distribution ask
4♥, 4♠ relay
5♥ 3433, 5♠dcb quack? ask

The structure I consider using : (suit order if same length : ♥♠♣♦)
1 step = Q of the longest suit if opener has only one queen,
C or R (CRS or RCS, which one is better btw?) if opener has 2 queens
no Q of longest suit if opener has 3 queens

2 step = Q of 2nd longest suit if opener has only one queen,
etc..
4 step = 0 or 4 queens

This structure always works if relayer has 3 queens.
If relayer has 2 queens, one can have only one case where ambiguity remains.
If relayer has 1 or 0 queens, problems are too frequent unless one can deduce only one possibility through the HCP count. In the showed hand, altough we know opener has 4 to 5 hcp left bcs 11 (A+A+K) are known and bcs opener is minimum, using the structure above, opener will answer step 3 : (♣Q or ♠Q+♦Q)
So this information helps but it's not always sufficient as in this case.

My questions are :

Is it possible to play a morphing dcb structure in function of the amount hcp left in opener's hand that wouldn't be too stressfull for memory and that would unveil, if not any ambiguity, reduced its frequency to a satisfactory level, thus taking into account the compromise precision/space bidding needed?

Has anyone tried a similar thing?
What was the structure of it?

Tx for stuff.

Patrick

[spotlight7]

Hi:

Spiral scan gives you this information. There is at least one book covering it.

Ultimate Club locates Jacks(and maybe tens)

Regards,
Robert

[Valardent]

[/QUOTE]Spiral scan gives you this information. There is at least one book covering it.

Not sure of what you mean. The basic structure of spiral scan is a thing I can manage. But here, considering the bidding space left, it would take too much space.

What I need is a scan structure that would change regarding hcp amount left in opener's hand.

If opener has 2 or 3 HCP left, he could hv:

Q or Q+J or J+J or J+J+J

so the structure used shouldn't need to describe 2 or more queens..

[QUOTE]Ultimate Club locates Jacks(and maybe tens)

How does it work?

Pat

[akhare]

Valardent, on Apr 30 2010, 07:16 AM, said:

Hi,

I'm looking for some help to unveil ambiguity as much as possible about Queen/Jack location.

This is the framework :

2 balanced hands, enough HCP to declare 6NT(with all Aces&Kings). The goal is to detect a play for seven thanks to a dcb-type tool.

Example :

ADx        Rx
Axxx      RDx
Dxx        ARV10x
Rxx        A9x

1NT(15-17),  2♠
2NT(mini),    3♦ ctrl 1-2 ask
3♠(5 ctrl), 4♣ relay distribution ask
4♥,          4♠ relay
5♥ 3433,  5♠dcb quack? ask

Well, assuming you have decided to play in NT, how about giving up exact shape resolution and starting a Q/J parity scan with an assumed shape of 4444 and scanning *all* suits in rank order (or symmetric order (H/S/C/D if you prefer)?

So, in your example below:

1NT(15-17), 2♠
2NT(mini), 3♦ ctrl 1-2 ask
3♠(5 ctrl), 4♣ -> Quack scan

4D: QJ of ♠ or neither
.....4S...QJ of ♥ or neither
.....4N...Q/J of ♥, QJ of ♦ or neither
4H: Q/J of ♠, QJ of ♥ or neither
....etc

At the end of the last suit scan, opener skips a step in the first suit with odd quack parity holding the Q and then stops without the T. The the first odd quack parity holding is the J, opener stops and then resumes scan for the T after the relay.

In the case with all even quack parity, opener starts scanning the highest suit for the T.

I think that in most cases, responder should be able to locate the exact quacks without much trouble...

[spotlight7]

Hi again:

You can find a copy of Ultimate Club at www.bridgewithdan.com look in the system section. You might also like to check Romex by George Rosenkranz
he also uses spiral scans.

I believe that both Ultimate Club and the Spiral Scan book use 'negative' cuebidding. They 'skip' bidding a suit
that they have a control/quack in and this method locates the exact location of controls/quacks at a reasonable level.

Ultimate Club shows the number of controls over the opening 1C* bid. After showing the exact shape
they show control location and later they can show quacks number and location.

You might also check at the 'Regression' site. It is a very good relay method(Forcing Pass) and he can also check on quacks.

Perhaps the most accurate bidding that I have ever seen. He can relay for shape and 'break' to check for NT stoppers and restart the relays again.

Regards,
Robert