[steve2005]

if you would like a booklet on a Tramsfer Precision System and a convention card
Includes a unique system of overcalls!

please email steve_mc2005@yahoo.ca

steve

[straube]

Maybe give a short summary?

[bluecalm]

Quote

Maybe give a short summary?

I second this. Also it would be nice if you tell us if you are interested in private/public discussion of the system or you just want to give us a nice gift

[steve2005]

bluecalm, on Apr 22 2010, 01:33 PM, said:

Quote

Maybe give a short summary?

I second this. Also it would be nice if you tell us if you are interested in private/public discussion of the system or you just want to give us a nice gift

1♣ str 16+ or 18+ Balanced
replies 1♦ 0-7 pts only non-gameforcing responce
1♥ 8+ pts GF, Transfer showing 5+♠
1♠ 8+ pts transfer showing 5+ ♥ or 11-13 pts balanced GF
1NT 8+ pts GF transfer showing 5+♣
2♣ 8+ pt GF transfer showing 5+♦
2♦ 5-7 pts 6 Hearts or Spades, Constructive
2♥ 8+ pts GF showing singleton or void ♥
2♠ 8-10 pts or 16+ balanced GF transfer to 2NT
2NT 8+ pts GF showing singleton or void ♠
3♣ 8+ pts GF pts GF showing singleton or void in♣
3♦ 8+ pts GF pts GF showing singleton or void in♦
3♥ A Solid 6 card suit with AKQJ GF
3♠ A Solid 7 card suit with AKQ & no outside control GF
3NT 14-15 balanced, no 5 card suit
4♣ A Solid 7 carder suit with AKQ with a outside control GF
4♦ Solid 8 carder suit with AKQ possibly with a outside control GF

some of this is from book precision today and power precision

am open to discussion

This post has been edited by steve2005: 2010-May-16, 11:42

[jjbrr]

what hand types are included in the bids showing shortness? seems those could all be wrapped up into one bid if 4441

[bluecalm]

Quote

what hand types are included in the bids showing shortness? seems those could all be wrapped up into one bid if 4441

I am putting together precision based system by my own right now and I think putting all 4-4-4-1 hands in one bid is kinda difficult to handle.
Let's say it's 2♠ then after 2NT relay one answer is at 3♠ level. After that you don't have space for both range ask and RKCB in every suit, as partner is unlimited it's not a good situation imo.

I think I will solve the problem by assigning ♠/♥ shortness to 2♠ and ♣/3♦ shortnesses to 3♣/3♦ bids which is kinda similar to what OP did.

[steve2005]

jjbrr, on Apr 22 2010, 04:08 PM, said:

what hand types are included in the bids showing shortness? seems those could all be wrapped up into one bid if 4441

For Impossible Positives Im using 4-4-4-1 and 4-4-0-5 without a five card major
when the shortness is a major you have 2 possible 5-card minors
for example 4-0-4-5 & 4-0-5-4

[spotlight7]

Hi:

Several systems use 4D* as terminator puppet to sign off in game.

Direct bids of 4H* and higher are RKC.

You save bidding space by using one bid for the 4441 hands.

You can use the extra bidding space to show the 4405 and 4450 hands

using 3C for all 4450 hands with diamonds and 3D/3H/3S to show exact

pattern 4405 hands with five clubs.

Regards,
Robert

[akhare]

steve2005, on Apr 22 2010, 05:30 PM, said:

jjbrr, on Apr 22 2010, 04:08 PM, said:

what hand types are included in the bids showing shortness? seems those could all be wrapped up into one bid if 4441

Im using 4-4-4-1 and 4-4-0-5 without a five card major
when the shortness is a major you have 2 possible 5-card minors
for example 4-0-4-5 & 4-0-5-4

Seems like you can potentially use fairly simple scheme for the 4441 / 5440 hands starting at 2♥:

2H.....Major singleton or void
...........2S asks
.....................2N = Spade singleton or void
.....................3C+= Heart singleton or void

2S.....Diamond singleton or void
............2N asks
..................3C+ = same as below with diamonds

2N.....4=4=4=1 (club singleton)
3C.....4=4=5=0
3D.....4=5=4=0
3H.....5=4=4=0 (min)
3S.....5=4=4=0 (max)

So, what happens to the hands like the 2S = 11-13+ NT?

There are several ways to address that, the simplest being to simply compressing the NT hands into one range.

After 1C...1S (transfer to NT) a sample scheme might be:
=====================================

2C: 11-13 / 16+ NT
2D: 4 hearts, not 4 spades, 8-10
2H: 4 spades, not 4 hearts, 8-10
2S: No 4 card major, 8-10
2N: Both majors, 8-10
3C: Both majors

[PrecisionL]

A couple of years ago I played with 2 different partners:

1♣ - 2♥ = all 4441 hands. 2♠ asks for 1-under the singleton and opener continues by biding a suit = RKC or bidding the singleton = Beta for Aces and Kings.

Likewise, 1♣ - 2♠ = all 5440 hands without 5M and 2NT asks and replies are 3♣ = (440)-5. 3♦ = 4-0-5-4, 3♥ = 0-4-5-4, and 3♠ = 4-4-5-0 (1-under the singleton).

Both of the above schemes worked well and were easy to remember.

However, KeyLime and I changed it because he wanted a two or three tier (strength) response structure. Although Beta works well, with non-minimum hands one could use the old Relay Precision scheme of 3♣ = 4441 or 4414 and 3♦ = 4144 and 3♥ = 1444 (1-under). Minimum hands (8-11 hcp and 1-4 Controls) can use the bids of 3♠ and higher like Match Point Precision to show one under the singleton.

It is better to use 1♣ - 1NT as both majors or transfer to hearts to minimize responder playing NT contracts.

This post has been edited by PrecisionL: 2010-April-23, 05:52

[steve2005]

bluecalm, on Apr 22 2010, 04:26 PM, said:

Quote

what hand types are included in the bids showing shortness? seems those could all be wrapped up into one bid if 4441

I am putting together precision based system by my own right now and I think putting all 4-4-4-1 hands in one bid is kinda difficult to handle.
Let's say it's 2♠ then after 2NT relay one answer is at 3♠ level. After that you don't have space for both range ask and RKCB in every suit, as partner is unlimited it's not a good situation imo.

I think I will solve the problem by assigning ♠/♥ shortness to 2♠ and ♣/3♦ shortnesses to 3♣/3♦ bids which is kinda similar to what OP did.

yes this doesnt take into account interference which right now is very aggressive
that's one reason i like showing the shortness!

[jjbrr]

OK, when I said wrap them all into one bid I didn't really mean one bid. You could easily put them into 2 or 3 bids rather than 4, though. Anyway even putting them into one bid seems better than putting them into 4 bids and then also having to unwind 4414 vs 4405, which, imo, is a big difference.

[jjbrr]

Also, after reading the other responses, I like Larry's structure perfectly fine.

[spotlight7]

Hi:

The other pair likes to bid in an auction where I showed 16+
when partner showed some 4441 GF with a 2H* bid.

Do they like to play for money?

Regards,
Robert

[straube]

You're giving a lot more room for spade responses and a lot less room for heart responses. 1C-1H, 1S (if this shows a fit) leaves way too much precious room. After 1C-2D, opener can't show both minor suits (just for example).

You can compare your structure to a simplified (i.e. they play something better) version of RM Precision...

Because their 1H is dual and because acceptance of their transfers does not show a fit, they're able to introduce more suits.


1D-0-7
1H-5 spades OR 11-13 balanced
.....1S-5 hearts
..........1N-11-13 balanced
..........2C-no fit, good
..........2D-no fit, bad
..........2H-fit, good
..........2S-fit, bad
.....1N-bal
..........2C-3 controls
..........2D-4 controls
..........2H-5+ controls
..........2S-0-2 controls
..........2N-11-13 balanced
.....2m-natural
..........S1-11-13 balanced
..........S2-no fit, good
.....2H-opener has 5 spades
..........2S-11-13 bal
..........2N-good
..........3C-bad
.....2S-1-4-4-4
1S-5 hearts
.....1N-bal
.....2C-S
.....2D-C
.....2H-D
.....2S-fit
.....2N-4-1-4-4
1N-clubs
.....2C-H
.....2D-S
.....2H-D
.....2S-fit
.....2N-bal
.....3C-4-4-4-1
2C-diamonds
.....2D-H
.....2H-S
.....2S-C
.....2N-bal
.....3C-fit
.....3D-4-4-1-4
2D-8-10 bal
2H-14+ bal
2S-good 4441
.....2N-asks stiff
2N-
3C-4441, bad
3D-4414, bad

I like relays even better. Good luck with your system design.

[akhare]

straube, on Apr 23 2010, 11:21 PM, said:

I like relays even better. Good luck with your system design.

Yes indeed -- "relays" usually make eyes glaze over, but something like symmetric relays shouldn't take more than a week to learn...

[bluecalm]

Quote

Because their 1H is dual and because acceptance of their transfers does not show a fit, they're able to introduce more suits.

I think "acceptance" is a bit misleading here. They just bid suits.
First responder bid his suit (via transfer) then opener bid his suits (by steps in order H/C/D/S then responder bids in steps if he has no support, 3supp, 4supp; Their system is very simple in general, much more simple than even symmetric relays I think.

(they of course have many agreements in subsequent bidding which may or may not be simple I dunno, I am talking about general design of the system and handling first 2/3 rounds of bidding)

[steve2005]

deleted- this part of system no longer applies.