[Coelacanth]

Scoring: IMP

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Let's say you open this not-unpromising collection 2♣. Your LHO overcalls 2NT for the minors. Let's say that you and your partner have agreed that you will treat this with whatever Unusual vs. Unusual treatment you normally use, which includes the fact that partner's double suggests penalizing at least one of the opponents' suits.

(I keep saying "let's say" because this is a hypothetical auction. At the actual table, this hand opened a Precision 1♣ and LHO overcalled 1NT for the minors. The judgment issues involved are similar and I didn't want this to be a systems discussion.)

Anyway, partner doubles without any apparent difficulty, RHO passes, and let's say you pass to await developments. LHO now runs to 3♣, and again partner doubles. RHO passes and it's up to you.

The auction has been
2♣-(2NT)-X-(P)
P-(3♣)-X-(P)

You can pass, in which case you are defending 3♣ doubled, or you can find some other forward-going bid. Keeping in mind the vulnerability and form of scoring, what's your choice?

[Fluffy]

gets to know the opponents, if LHO has a monster we might not make much tricks here.

But in general I trust partner and pass.

[Phil]

Coelacanth, on Apr 21 2010, 03:15 PM, said:

Anyway, partner doubles without any apparent difficulty.

Flammable, corrosive and toxic.

Any discussions what 3♣ by me would be on the last round?

[Coelacanth]

Phil, on Apr 21 2010, 03:44 PM, said:

Any discussions what 3♣ by me would be on the last round?

Well, if you and your partner have an agreement as to what that would mean, let's discuss.

I was more interested in the judgment aspects. You have shown a very strong hand but have disclosed nothing about your shape. The opponents interfere and partner suggests defending.

(1)If you're the partner of the big hand on this auction, what kind of cards would lead you to suggest defending? Would you bid this way with a weak hand that doesn't think it can make anything but with lots of putative trumps (say, xx, xx, Jxxx, Txxxx)? Would you suggest defending with a balanced hand of, say, 6-8 HCP? Are you promising or denying values outside the opponents' suits? Are you denying a fit with any trump suit partner might have (here, the majors since the opponents are showing the minors)?

(2)If you're holding the big hand, what kind of cards would lead you to overrule partner's suggestion? Does the void in one of the opponents' possible trump suits worry you? If one of your small diamonds was a small spade, would you be more likely to try to declare the hand? What if a diamond was a small heart? What if your diamonds and spades were reversed, so you "know" partner's double is based on clubs only?

(3)Obviously (I think?), being NV vs Vul makes you more likely to want to defend. What if the vulnerability were different? What if you were playing matchpoints or BAM?

[Codo]

My partner made a statement, so I would surely like to defend.

If he did so with qxxxx,xxx,Kx,Qxx I would not like his descission.

[billw55]

Pass obv at these colors? This is a defensive maximum even considering I already bid 2♣, why would I do anything else?

[bluecalm]

PASSSSSS. It would be much more interesting in other vulnerabilities.

[Coelacanth]

Thanks to all for the replies.

Scoring: IMP

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Our auction, as I mentioned, was
1♣*-(1NT**)-X-(P)
P-(2♣)-X-All Pass

* Precision (strong, artificial, forcing)
** Minors

2♣X was booked for 500 vs best defense (so 3♣X would have been 800) but was set only one trick for an unsatisfying 200.

Looking at the two hands you probably want to be in 6♥. Trumps are 5-0, however. It makes six double-dummy only because the long trump hand also has 4 spades, allowing you to safely ruff a diamond in dummy.

The actual result at the other table was 4♥ making 5.

Looking at the north hand, do you agree with the decision to play for penalties? Would you have still doubled if the opponents had run to diamonds?

[whereagles]

They seem to have chosen the wrong suit, so pass.

Would have bid 3♥ had LHO bid 3♦ and it came round to me.

[Fluffy]

yeah double 3♣ of course, and 2♣ as well partner doesn't have to be void.

[Phil]

I started to write a reply yesterday but got sidetracked.

I'm not sure I would have sat for the double initially. We do not know what kind of minor suit length our RHO has because the double will slow him down. All we really know is that our RHO's minors look equivalent. Sounds like this was the case with RHO 2-2 and LHO 5-6.

With a regular partner I would think our standard defense to a 2N opening for the minors would apply if we decided to pull the x:

3♣ = ♥/♠; better ♥
3♦ = ♥/♠; better ♠
3♥/3♠ = natural.

I can see on the actual hand defending looks juicy, but wouldn't partner double on a lot lesser club holdings?

I don't want to be in 6♥. It needs the opponents to have very specific shapes.