[CarlRitner]

Wow, that's enormously helpful, thanks Eugene.

If anyone has the same sort of outline for a Max Hardy style 2/1, I would be equally grateful, if not I intend to put one together. Eventually. I was planning to be more verbose, for my own benefit more than anything. I find when I write something I retain it much better then if I just read it.

I had suggested a new "Bidding Dictionary" in the general style of Alan Truscott's version, but strictly for 2/1 and "illustrated" with example hands, and a bit more shape-oriented, to a few of the better bridge authors I happen to know. So far, the responses have not been encouraging.


I have all the Lawrence books here too. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[hanp]

When it comes to 2/1 bidding, I would recommend this site:

http://forums.bridgebase.com/

[gwnn]

once you know who to read. hanp for example is a trustworthy source and he said you should ignore his opinions.

[dealmegold]

I've got the green book, "Modern Bridge Bidding for the 21st Century". It's a description of a complete off-the-shelf bidding system which incorporates 2/1 GF, i.e. there are also sections on 1NT openings, strong openings, overcalls etc.

The system works fine most of the time and I have used it with some friends as a kind of baseline on which we can all agree. It does have a few holes, and with a regular partner you'd want to develop it a bit further, maybe taking some ideas from the purple book.

It's poorly written. Hardy has an annoying habit of repeating himself, so you'll get an introductory paragraph which explains the system, then a longer paragraph which says exactly the same thing in more words. That's sometimes confusing, because you're expecting to be told something new.

On the other hand, there are loads of examples and exercises which clarify things a great deal.

I'd recommend the book to someone who's not really playing any consistent system already, and wants to be able to say "I play X". If you're already playing another system complete with bells and whistles and want to try 2/1, you might find this book frustrating to read.

[y66]

Steve Robinson's 2/1 book is well laid out and does a better job than most (all?) at interleaving useful examples with the text. But like Hardy and most others (except Lawrence), it doesn't really get into the heart of 2/1 sequences. Hard to believe people are still buying stuff like this on paper (vs hypertext versions on web).

Robert Todd has some notes he put together with his students in Tallahassee in Word. The system has a lot of Hardy's stuff in it and some very nice editing by Robert and others.

The system notes that come with Erik Kokish and Beverly Kraft's Modern American Bidding software are hard to beat (in Word format or possibly RTF). The problem examples in the software are excellent IMO. Constructive bidding only.

Would love to see somebody edit the material on this forum. Agree with others that it contains the best stuff out there in the public domain. Not that I'm qualified to judge. I'm not. But that has never stopped me from giving an opinion.

I'm sure Carl knows how much work Alan Truscott and others put into the Bidding Dictionary. Too bad it was before the web. Maybe it would have survived and evolved. Truscott intended to keep it up-to-date and alludes to having it on "diskette" in the intro. But if that diskette exists, it is probably in an attic somewhere. Amazing how much of that stuff is still current though. And how much is not covered in that book. The historical notes are gems.

Rich Marchione published a 138 page set of notes on Power Precision. Probably not as good as EH's. But it does have sample hands. Actually. I think Sontag participated in that so at the time of publication (1982) it was probably decent.

Would definitely touch base with Dan Neill before investing in producing yet another set of system notes. I would be greatly surprised if you haven't already.

[CarlRitner]

Thanks. I am aware of the efforts behind the The Bidding Dictionary. In fact, the diskette exists. I know because I worked on revisions to the dictionary and gave them to Alan back in 2004 or so. And I still have a copy of the book on disk here, as all of our correspondence was electronic.

I want everyone to know my work was on typographic errors and not bridge theory.

I do not have the bridge expertise to put together a 2/1 Bidding Dictionary, but I would offer up my organizational and proofreading skills to anyone who undertakes such a project. The only caveat is that I would insist on a paper version of the product, even if a subset of a web-based database. I love my books.

In the meantime, I have the Lawrence books, the Hardy books, and of course the Bergen books here to re-digest. Lord, we sure don't all seem to agree on a whole lot about 2/1, do we?


Cheers,
Carl

[CarlRitner]

Nobody mentioned Bridge World Standard (2001) which I had assumed was "Standard"
but is actually a Lawrence-oriented 2/1 GF system. I wonder if this is worth
investigating in detail. Also, does anyone know when the next BWS is scheduled to be
released?


y66 (Whoever you are) - thanks for the link to the Tallahassee System notes. I had this
a few years ago and was probably not disciplined enough to read it. I had forgotten
about it. It looks worth an ink cartridge so I can take it with me on vacation. I'm not a
laptop reader sort of person.

I've been playing Constructive Raises since I started with 2/1. Today's task is to
discover why

[softcoder]

Carl, on Apr 17 2010, 07:43 PM, said:

So, it's been 20 years since Max completed his third (and by some accounts, final) treatise on the Two Over One system, inaugurated by Richard Walsh. For those of you who play the 'hard rules" version (100% Game Force to 3NT/4x) I am curious as to how much benefit you got out of the book, how faithful you adhere to his methods, and if you've found anything published since that helps you out at an advanced level.

With my own 2/1 system currently pieced together from various books, articles here and there and a few tips from different directions, it's time to sit down and put together a detailed system notebook. I figured I start with this book. I also have the Mike Lawrence "soft rules" workbook, and after a cursory review, I think I might want to stick with the stricter version. But I am open to suggestions and/or persuasion.


Any really good books or other resources out there I am unaware of?



Carl

softcode
The Yellow book is useable, especially if you already know 2/1.
One thing that I like personally, but that never caught on, was Hardy's structure for Major suit raises.
To get the most out of the Yellow Book, you should invest in the Orange book, if still available. I think it is called "2/1 Workbook".
It is a workbook of problems and examples with references back to the Yellow Book text.
It clears up a LOT of ambiguities in the way the Yellow Book is presented.

I also think that the Green and Purple books (21st century) are a BIG improvement over the Yellow book. The Orange book is still valuable though.

As far as Precision goes, it too has undergone quite a bit of change since the early years.
The NT range now is more often 14-16 than 13-15. The 2C opener with only 5 clubs is falling into disfavour. And the 'impossible negatives' I think have been superceded.
A decent treatment that is pretty modern is the Blue Book by Manley and Berkowitz.
An influential book with lots of different Precision ideas, is Rigal's "Precision in the 90's".

[whereagles]

The trouble with precision is everybody has a different version of it. We'd need something like an update of CCWei's original works for some sort of "standard precision" to become popular.

Right now I'd say Rigal is what comes closer to being that.

[Dale Lacey]

eyhung, on 2010-April-19, 12:44, said:

Many years ago, I did just that and converted Power Precision to a "system note" format.

Daniel Neill has a copy of my transcription on his systems page here:

http://www.bridgewithdan.com/systems/SWPow...c_fromEHung.doc

It's been changed to: http://www.bridgewit...c_fromEHung.pdf

[Flem72]

"If you like the 3m-rebid-not-forcing style, Goldman's Aces Scientific is very readable and logical."

and contains system adjuncts that were way ahead of their time, many of the treatments advanced players use today.

[blackshoe]

Rigal's Precision book is good because he discusses in many cases why he chose a particular method, and he offers alternatives. That said, in my one Precision partnership these days, we're using Berkowitz-Manley.

There are a couple of books by Dr. Neil H. Timm, Ph.D (everywhere I see his name, the doctorate is prominently mentioned ): 2/1 Game Force, A Modern Approach and Precision Simplified For 2/1 Game Force Players

Timm is Professor Emeritus of Statistics from the University of Pittsburgh, and his writing shows his background. That said, he does have some good information in the 2/1 book, at least. I just got the Precision book, haven't read it yet.

[SteveMoe]

CarlRitner, on 2010-April-21, 09:21, said:

Nobody mentioned Bridge World Standard (2001) ... does anyone know when the next BWS is scheduled to be
released?

2017. Polling well underway.

[aguahombre]

I look forward to this thread being revived again in about 2022.

[rhm]

eyhung, on 2010-April-19, 12:44, said:

Many years ago, I did just that and converted Power Precision to a "system note" format.

Daniel Neill has a copy of my transcription on his systems page here:

http://www.bridgewithdan.com/systems/SWPow...c_fromEHung.doc

Link returns 404 not found

Rainer Herrmann

[PrecisionL]

rhm said:

1465204022[/url]' post='887789']
Link returns 404 not found

Rainer Herrmann

You missed the correction. Several posts up thread.

[jogs]

CarlRitner, on 2010-April-17, 19:25, said:

Hardy's red book was a disaster. The one I am thinking of using is the yellow book. As near as I can tell there's still issues with his competitive bidding, but the fundamental ideas in the front half seem sensible.

I totally disagree. Hardy's red book is perfectly acceptable as a skeleton system. Just add your own favorite conventions. Don't use Hardy for contested auctions. Use Robson/Segal for contested auctions.

[blackshoe]

Speaking of Robson/Segal, where's their book on uncontested auctions?