[Bbradley62]

brillage, on Apr 2 2010, 03:30 AM, said:

1♣ Pass 1♦ Pass
1♥ Pass 4♣

---

To get back to the actual hand... Can those with strong opinions please tell us how the auction should have gone?

[aguahombre]

Ok, let's assume that you and partner agree that 4C showed this approximate shape. Here is my strong opinion:

1) We should have an agreement on whether 4C showed this much strength.
Our splinters wouldn't, by about the KJ of spades.
2) The given opener will probably just bid 4H after this sequence.
3) I hate using up all that room and still understating my values.
4) I hate even more, involving partner with a "descriptive" call, and then over-riding what he decides.

That having been said, I guess if I decided to use 4C on this hand, I would surrender at 4H. That is not as strong an opinion as my others.

[Bbradley62]

aguahombre, on Apr 3 2010, 04:12 PM, said:

Ok, let's assume that you and partner agree that 4C showed this approximate shape.  Here is my strong opinion:

1) We should have an agreement on whether 4C showed this much strength.
     Our splinters wouldn't, by about the KJ of spades.
2) The given opener will probably just bid 4H after this sequence.
3) I hate using up all that room and still understating my values.
4) I hate even more, involving partner with a "descriptive" call, and then over-riding what he decides.

That having been said, I guess if I decided to use 4C on this hand, I would surrender at 4H.  That is not as strong an opinion as my others.

Why can't you just tell us how you think the entire auction should have gone? Don't splinter, since you both don't think 4C should be a splinter and think that this hand is too strong to splinter anyway.

This post has been edited by Bbradley62: 2010-April-03, 14:48

[aguahombre]

Oops, I saw a given auction (thru 4C) and responded, including what I would do after that. Will let the respected ones give their auctions and just read them.

[Bbradley62]

aguahombre, on Apr 3 2010, 04:46 PM, said:

Oops, I saw a given auction (thru 4C) and responded, including what I would do after that. Will let the respected ones give their auctions and just read them.

Oh well... I'm hoping that someone who believes (as I do) that this hand is too strong to splinter will offer a full auction.

[Phil]

Bbradley62, on Apr 3 2010, 03:51 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Apr 3 2010, 04:46 PM, said:

Oops, I saw a given auction (thru 4C) and responded, including what I would do after that.  Will let the respected ones give their auctions and just read them.

Oh well... I'm hoping that someone who believes (as I do) that this hand is too strong to splinter will offer a full auction.

I'll try from a West Coast perspective:

1♣ - 1♦*
1♥** - 3♥***
3♠# - 3N##
4♦....

* - promises a GF hand and at least 5♦ if we have a 4cM
** - shows at least 5♣ or exactly 4414
*** - forcing, since responder must have GF to hold 4♥ + ♦'s
# - non-serious, minimum, but "I don't hate my hand".
## - serious spade cue

after 4♦, I think we have just enough info for responder to take control.

[aguahombre]

The problem is, I could go thru some bids that each of us thought they were describing their hand by the time it reached 4H, and my partner and I would still have missed the slam...although both comfortable that we had shown what we had.

Very damned few would agree with the auction, though. So I thought I would save the ridicule of starting with a 1NT rebid and then finding the heart fit.

[Bbradley62]

Phil, on Apr 3 2010, 04:57 PM, said:

after 4♦, I think we have just enough info for responder to take control.

And what happens after responder takes control? Why is it so hard to get a complete answer around here?

[gnasher]

I don't think it too strong to splinter, because I think this splinter should have a continuous range. I think it should go:

1♣-1♦
1♥-4♣
4♦-Keycard
Three-6♥

Opener has a pretty good minimum, with prime values, Ax in partner's likely 5-card suit and a doubleton in partner's likely 3-card suit, so he's well worth a cue-bid below game. Responder has an extra ace, so once opener shows suitability with ♦A he's worth the five level. Opposite the worst possble hand containing three keycards, xx Kxxx Axx Axxx, slam is almost 50%; adding ♥J or a doubleotn diamond makes it much better.

[Phil]

Bbradley62, on Apr 3 2010, 04:10 PM, said:

And what happens after responder takes control? Why is it so hard to get a complete answer around here?

A little please and thank you goes a long way....

Since this wasn't posted in the BI, I assumed you knew what this meant. But I'll indulge:

.............4N*
5♦**....5♠***
6♥....pass

* - 1430
** - 0/3 (obviously 3)
*** - Trump Q ask (probably futile)

[rogerclee]

gnasher, on Apr 3 2010, 02:12 PM, said:

Opposite the worst possble hand containing three keycards, xx Kxxx Axx Axxx, slam is almost 50%

It seems we're on 3-2 hearts, a finesse, and a little bit more.

[jdonn]

But Phil what happens after responder passes 6♥? Why is it so hard to get a complete answer around here?

[Bbradley62]

...

This post has been edited by Bbradley62: 2010-April-03, 15:36

[pooltuna]

Bbradley62, on Apr 3 2010, 03:51 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Apr 3 2010, 04:46 PM, said:

Oops, I saw a given auction (thru 4C) and responded, including what I would do after that.   Will let the respected ones give their auctions and just read them.

Oh well... I'm hoping that someone who believes (as I do) that this hand is too strong to splinter will offer a full auction.

well assuming you use Walsh and fast arrival an immediate 2♥ (over 1♥) call ought to begin a slam investigation as well as promise at least x45(+)y

[gnasher]

rogerclee, on Apr 3 2010, 10:18 PM, said:

gnasher, on Apr 3 2010, 02:12 PM, said:

Opposite the worst possble hand containing three keycards, xx Kxxx Axx Axxx, slam is almost 50%

It seems we're on 3-2 hearts, a finesse, and a little bit more.

It's better than that, because we have ♠J. I would cash the top trumps, then the top diamonds, and if the queen hadn't fallen I'd take a spade finesse. So, I need 3-2 hearts, and one of:

♦Q singleton or doubleton (33%)
♠Q onside with diamonds 3-2 and queen guarded (20%)
♠Q onside with diamonds 4-1, a bit of the time - see below (say 1%)

Thta's about 37%, so "almost 50%" was an overestimate, but "3-2 hearts, a finesse, and a little bit more" was an underestimate. Also, of course, they may lead a spade away from the queen.

When I made my original estimate I hadn't realised that with diamonds 4-1 I would usually go down, even with the spade right. After a club lead, two top trumps and two top diamonds ending in dummy, if someone shows out I need to be able to take a spade finesse and then crossruff, without havig a winner ruffed, and without being overruffed in clubs. I don't mind if they overruff me in diamonds, because that gives me enough trump control to cash the long diamond.

[gnasher]

Phil, on Apr 3 2010, 09:57 PM, said:

I'll try from a West Coast perspective:

1♣ - 1♦*
1♥** - 3♥***
3♠# - 3N##
4♦....

[snip]

after 4♦, I think we have just enough info for responder to take control.

From responder's point of view, can't opener have xx K10xx Ax KQxxx, opposite which the five level isn't great? Your auction doesn't seem to address the question of club wastage.

[Bbradley62]

gnasher, on Apr 3 2010, 07:06 PM, said:

It's better than that, because we have ♠J. I would cash the top trumps, then the top diamonds, and if the queen hadn't fallen I'd take a spade finesse. So, I need 3-2 hearts, and one of:

♦Q singleton or doubleton (33%)
♠Q onside with diamonds 3-2 and queen guarded (20%)
♠Q onside with diamonds 4-1, a bit of the time - see below (say 1%)

Your diamonds are 5-2, so they have 6.

[Phil]

gnasher, on Apr 3 2010, 06:12 PM, said:

Phil, on Apr 3 2010, 09:57 PM, said:

I'll try from a West Coast perspective:

1♣ - 1♦*
1♥** - 3♥***
3♠# - 3N##
4♦....

[snip]

after 4♦, I think we have just enough info for responder to take control.

From responder's point of view, can't opener have xx K10xx Ax KQxxx, opposite which the five level isn't great? Your auction doesn't seem to address the question of club wastage.

Opener would cue 4♣ showing 2/3 honors.

[aguahombre]

pooltuna, on Apr 3 2010, 04:38 PM, said:

Bbradley62, on Apr 3 2010, 03:51 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Apr 3 2010, 04:46 PM, said:

Oops, I saw a given auction (thru 4C) and responded, including what I would do after that.   Will let the respected ones give their auctions and just read them.

Oh well... I'm hoping that someone who believes (as I do) that this hand is too strong to splinter will offer a full auction.

well assuming you use Walsh and fast arrival an immediate 2♥ (over 1♥) call ought to begin a slam investigation as well as promise at least x45(+)y

Walsh bids 1D first, not 1H with longer diamonds and GF+

[Phil]

aguahombre, on Apr 3 2010, 07:16 PM, said:

pooltuna, on Apr 3 2010, 04:38 PM, said:

Bbradley62, on Apr 3 2010, 03:51 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Apr 3 2010, 04:46 PM, said:

Oops, I saw a given auction (thru 4C) and responded, including what I would do after that.   Will let the respected ones give their auctions and just read them.

Oh well... I'm hoping that someone who believes (as I do) that this hand is too strong to splinter will offer a full auction.

well assuming you use Walsh and fast arrival an immediate 2♥ (over 1♥) call ought to begin a slam investigation as well as promise at least x45(+)y

Walsh bids 1D first, not 1H with longer diamonds and GF+

Plus 1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥ - 2♥ is usually 3 pieces and 8-10.