[kgr]

Scoring: IMP

---

Bidding:
1NT-2♦!
2♥!-3♣
 
2♦ = transfer ♥, 4c♥ if inv+; 5c♥ if weak
2♥ = no 4c♥ or 3433
3♣ = 4c♥, 5+c♣ and GF
 
3♥ would be control for ♣, you can only show your 4c♥ by bidding 4♥ now.
=> 3NT or 4♥?

[dake50]

KQx + KQx not in partner's suits. Easy 3NT warning 'wrong' stuff for higher.

[MarkDean]

4♥ for me. May have only one stopper in either spades or diamonds (and LHO is likely to lead the one where I have just one).

[jjbrr]

3NT

[CSGibson]

Imp scoring? 4♥, and not close. Most of the scenerios I'm dealing out where the hands fit the auction I'm making 4♥ if I'm making 3N (assuming they don't find low leads from AJxx in a suit contract, for example, to hit partner's T), and the reverse just isn't true.

Then again, I learned to my detriment that it's hard to take imps from Jeremy, so maybe I should keep quiet and listen

[gnasher]

4♥. I don't think this sort of sequence should be used to avoid a 4-4 major-suit fit - it's almost never right to do that when responder is unbalanced. You should use this sequence to stay out of 3NT when you belong in a Moysian or five of a minor, or to find a slam.

[nigel_k]

I expect 4♥ to play better than 3NT and would love to bid 4♥ fast arrival.

However this hand is worth about 13.5 so I would never have opened 1NT and it's just terrible for a heart/club slam so I can understand bidding 3NT to try to apply the brakes.

[CSGibson]

by the way, since everything seems to be geared toward cue-bidding for a club slam up to 4♣, can I at least assume that 4♦ would be some sort of well-fitting hand with 4 hearts, to distinguish from a 4♥ call with a bad fit?

[neilkaz]

nigel_k, on Mar 27 2010, 02:27 PM, said:

I expect 4♥ to play better than 3NT and would love to bid 4♥ fast arrival.

However this hand is worth about 13.5 so I would never have opened 1NT and it's just terrible for a heart/club slam so I can understand bidding 3NT to try to apply the brakes.

I have to agree with Nigel this time.

[jdonn]

4♥ and I don't think it's that close. KQx opposite xx or x in partner's hand is not good at all for notrump when they lead it. Opposite another balanced hand with 4 hearts this would be one thing, but partner has 5-6 clubs and is likely to be short in one of our suits.

[kgr]

CSGibson, on Mar 27 2010, 11:52 PM, said:

by the way, since everything seems to be geared toward cue-bidding for a club slam up to 4♣, can I at least assume that 4♦ would be some sort of well-fitting hand with 4 hearts, to distinguish from a 4♥ call with a bad fit?

Not agreed.
If my partner would bid that I would expect that 4♦ is a splinter (he loves to open 1NT atypical).
....but it is a good suggestion: 4♦ is 3433 with a good hand.

[kgr]

---

I did bid 4♥.
4♥ was hopeless. 3NT would have had a change against not optimal defense.
(E.g ♦ lead for RHO ♦A and no ♥ switch)

[aguahombre]

Didn't understand the purpose of the methods, so couldn't decide what to do/3C. Now I don't understand the explanation of the methods. The distribution described seems right, the GF part seems strange.

I guess it was too irresistable to use the system to wait for a hand which fit it. So now we know that the best answer as to what to do with this game forcing sequence is to pass 3C.

[kgr]

aguahombre, on Mar 28 2010, 11:52 AM, said:

Didn't understand the purpose of the methods, so couldn't decide what to do/3C. Now I don't understand the explanation of the methods. The distribution described seems right, the GF part seems strange.

I guess it was too irresistable to use the system to wait for a hand which fit it. So now we know that the best answer as to what to do with this game forcing sequence is to pass 3C.

It is much the same as stayman followed by 3♣ is GF?
What do you think that North should bid?
Pass 1NT ; or 2♦ transfer to ♥ followed by 2NT?

[aguahombre]

kgr, on Mar 28 2010, 04:03 AM, said:

aguahombre, on Mar 28 2010, 11:52 AM, said:

Didn't understand the purpose of the methods, so couldn't decide what to do/3C.  Now I don't understand the explanation of the methods.  The distribution described seems right, the GF part seems strange.

I guess it was too irresistable to use the system to wait for a hand which fit it.  So now we know that the best answer as to what to do with this game forcing sequence is to pass 3C.

It is much the same as stayman followed by 3♣ is GF?
What do you think that North should bid?
Pass 1NT ; or 2♦ transfer to ♥ followed by 2NT?

yes, it is exactly like stayman, then 3C as GF except: it isn't a game force hand, and wouldn't follow through with a 3 club bid after finding a heart fit. The choices would be to bid 3H after stayman, inviting game or to be grateful you found a heart fit and pass 2H. I would probably invite game in hearts and play it in 3, which isn't so joyful, either, due to the nature of the original NT opener.

[kgr]

aguahombre, on Mar 28 2010, 12:16 PM, said:

kgr, on Mar 28 2010, 04:03 AM, said:

aguahombre, on Mar 28 2010, 11:52 AM, said:

Didn't understand the purpose of the methods, so couldn't decide what to do/3C.  Now I don't understand the explanation of the methods.  The distribution described seems right, the GF part seems strange.

I guess it was too irresistable to use the system to wait for a hand which fit it.  So now we know that the best answer as to what to do with this game forcing sequence is to pass 3C.

It is much the same as stayman followed by 3♣ is GF?
What do you think that North should bid?
Pass 1NT ; or 2♦ transfer to ♥ followed by 2NT?

yes, it is exactly like stayman, then 3C as GF except: it isn't a game force hand, and wouldn't follow through with a 3 club bid after finding a heart fit. The choices would be to bid 3H after stayman, inviting game or to be grateful you found a heart fit and pass 2H. I would probably invite game in hearts and play it in 3, which isn't so joyful, either, due to the nature of the original NT opener.

You should compare North's action here with a stayman auction and a misfit:
1NT-2♣-2♦-?? ; 2NT or 3♣?

[gnasher]

kgr, on Mar 28 2010, 11:47 AM, said:

You should compare North's action here with a stayman auction and a misfit:
1NT-2♣-2♦-?? ; 2NT or 3♣?

You're right, that's the correct comparison. In that sequence this hand isn't quite worth a game-force, but if I did decide to insist on game I'd just bid 3NT. 3NT will sometimes makes on marginal values, but for you to suggest playing in 5♣ you should have full values - eleven tricks is a lot.

aquahombre said:

yes, it is exactly like stayman, then 3C as GF except: it isn't a game force hand, and wouldn't follow through with a 3 club bid after finding a heart fit. The choices would be to bid 3H after stayman, inviting game or to be grateful you found a heart fit and pass 2H. I would probably invite game in hearts and play it in 3, which isn't so joyful, either, due to the nature of the original NT opener.

Are you really saying that after 1NT-2♣; 2♥ you would bid only 3♥ on a hand with two aces, a singleton, and the tens of both your long suits?

[aguahombre]

yes, on a NT auction...bad trumps, likely duplication in diamonds, and the previous string, about 2 months ago --invites in a notrump sequence are usually accepted by all 16 and 17's. Next, we will get down to JXX TXXX X ATXXX being a stayman bid followed by a 3H invite.