[kfay]

Scoring: MP

---

No opposition bidding you reach 3NT after North opens 1♦.

4th best heart lead to the 10 and QUEEN.

On account of the club blockage/entry dilemma you play a top honor from hand the the queen falls on your left. You cross to dummy in clubs, LHO throwing a high spade (UDCA) and now...

1) club game
2) platinum pairs

[hrothgar]

Club game, I'm winning the first trick, and hooking the Queen of Hearts.

If the Queen wins, I'm leading a club to the Jack.
If this looses, I'm getting back in eventually and attacking Clubs.

In a quality event, I'm ducking a club from the get go

[kfay]

hrothgar, on Mar 26 2010, 11:43 AM, said:

Club game, I'm winning the first trick, and hooking the Queen of Hearts. 

If the Queen wins,  I'm leading a club to the Jack. 
If this looses, I'm getting back in eventually and attacking Clubs.

In a quality event, I'm ducking a club from the get go

I think you misread the start of the problem?

[aguahombre]

Safe way seems to be low diamond to ten, which must hold or there is no problem -- then spade to king. Since I have already gained by doing the right thing in clubs, the rest is gravy.

[hrothgar]

kfay, on Mar 26 2010, 07:45 PM, said:

hrothgar, on Mar 26 2010, 11:43 AM, said:

Club game, I'm winning the first trick, and hooking the Queen of Hearts. 

If the Queen wins,  I'm leading a club to the Jack. 
If this looses, I'm getting back in eventually and attacking Clubs.

In a quality event, I'm ducking a club from the get go

I think you misread the start of the problem?

Yeap, I thought it was a Diamond lead...

[gnasher]

Platimum Pairs: This is a normal contract, played from the normal side, probably with the normal lead. ♦Q is more likely to be onside than not. I cross to ♥Q, run the clubs, and take a diamond finesse.

At my club, this would still be a normal contract, probably played from the normal side (though the prevalence of Acol complicates things), probably with the normal lead. Hence I'd do the same.

[aguahombre]

gnasher, on Mar 26 2010, 11:11 AM, said:

Platimum Pairs: This is a normal contract, played from the normal side, probably with the normal lead. ♦Q is more likely to be onside than not. I cross to ♥Q, run the clubs, and take a diamond finesse.

At my club, this would still be a normal contract, probably played from the normal side (though the prevalence of Acol complicates things), probably with the normal lead. Hence I'd do the same.

Did I miss something, and the clubs are running?

[kfay]

gnasher, on Mar 26 2010, 12:11 PM, said:

Platimum Pairs:  This is a normal contract, played from the normal side, probably with the normal lead.  ♦Q is more likely to be onside than not.  I cross to ♥Q, run the clubs, and take a diamond finesse.

At my club, this would still be a normal contract, probably played from the normal side (though the prevalence of Acol complicates things), probably with the normal lead.  Hence I'd do the same.

Dude, your clubs won't run!

For all the misreaders out there:

Do you 1) Play the spade king, then later cash your rounds and take the diamond hook? Further spoiler: you can go down playing like this!!!

Or 2) Play a low diamond off dummy towards the 10? Further spoiler: you can't go down playing like this!!!

I guess this is a B/I problem or something?

[awm]

I'll go with a diamond to the ten after winning the club jack. This guarantees making the contract, while basically giving up on overtricks. The alternative line is a diamond hook at trick three (club queen is almost surely an honest card) which wins when the finesse is on (11 tricks) and loses when it's off (only 8 tricks with the club blockage).

The reasoning in a weak field is that some people will miss 3NT. Minor suit hands are surprisingly hard to bid in standard methods with bad agreements, and I wouldn't be surprised to see an auction like 1♦-2♣-2♦-3♣-Pass from a few pairs. The safety play always beats these folks.

In a strong field, everyone will be in 3NT. But some will play it from the wrong side on an auction like 1NT-3NT. These people will struggle to make the hand, almost surely failing on a heart lead and having trouble on many other leads. Making the contract will beat these pairs (who are basically playing for one down).

[hanp]

Being in this position I'd play the spade king, planning to go all out when the diamond hook is more likely to be onside.

Having foreseen this I'd hook diamonds before playing a club to the jack. Just as good when the finesse is onside but better when it is not.

[ONEferBRID]

Aquaman has the guaranteed way.... low to the Diam 10.

[kfay]

hanp, on Mar 26 2010, 12:18 PM, said:

Being in this position I'd play the spade king, planning to go all out when the diamond hook is more likely to be onside.

Having foreseen this I'd hook diamonds before playing a club to the jack. Just as good when the finesse is onside but better when it is not.

What is WRONG with people today? Don't I now get 2 hearts, 4 diamonds, 2 clubs when the finesse is wrong?

Anyway after the finesse wins I suppose you want to play a club to the Jack and THEN the ♠K? This is like exactly the same thing, except that by playing a club to the J first I guarantee the contract, and then can reconsider.

::tillltttttt::

[jjbrr]

at the club, a plus score at MPs is a good score imo.

In the Platinums I'll play the ♠. Go big or go home.

Better kfay?

[kfay]

jjbrr, on Mar 26 2010, 01:06 PM, said:

Better kfay?

♥

[awm]

There is an advantage to playing the diamond at trick three.

If the finesse fails and a heart comes back, you have four diamonds, two clubs, and two hearts. Down one. But if you play a club to the jack and then a spade, and a heart comes back... say you now cash the club and take the diamond hook. If it's off, you have lost a spade and a diamond and now the opponents can cash three hearts and a club for down two. So you have three lines:

(1) Win lead, club ace, diamond hook.
(2) Win lead, club ace, club to jack, spade king. Win return, cash club, diamond hook.
(3) Win lead, club ace, club to jack, diamond to ten.

Line 1 and line 2 are equal when the diamond hook wins (both make 11 tricks). But line 1 is better when the diamond hook is losing (down one instead of down two). Thus line 1 is superior to line 2. The only exception is if the club queen was some kind of tricky play from Qx, in which case line 2 discovers this fact early enough to run the clubs. But such a falsecard is ridiculous at any level of play, so we can discount the possibility.

Line 3 is better when the diamond hook loses, as it guarantees nine tricks regardless.

So the question is, which has heavier weight: (X) the very slightly better than 50/50 odds on the diamond finesse due to the club break and RHO having more known cards (Y) the possibility that some people are not playing 3NT, or are playing 3NT from the opposite side, or played the club suit by leading low towards the jack at trick two.

(X) suggests line 1 is slightly better than even odds, whereas (Y) suggests line 3 because you always beat these other pairs by making the hand. My belief is that (Y) is large enough to make line 3 superior (due to gross incompetence in a weak field, due to people opening 1NT with some range other than 15-17 on the north cards in a strong field).

[pooltuna]

kfay, on Mar 26 2010, 11:37 AM, said:

<!-- NORTHSOUTH begin --><table border=1> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>Dealer:</td> <td> ????? </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Vul:</td> <td> ???? </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Scoring:</td> <td> MP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table border='1'> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> KQxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> xx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> AKJ9x </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> Jx </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> xxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> AQ </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> 10x </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> AKxxxx </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- NORTHSOUTH end -->

No opposition bidding you reach 3NT after North opens 1♦.

4th best heart lead to the 10 and QUEEN.

On account of the club blockage/entry dilemma you play a top honor from hand the the queen falls on your left.  You cross to dummy in clubs, LHO throwing a high spade (UDCA) and now...

1) club game
2) platinum pairs

T1 Q♥
T2 small ♣ to J
T3 A♥
T4 A♣ cashing the rest of the ♣s if suit breaks and top 2♦; if not...
T5 K♣
T6 T♦ followed by taking another ♦ finesse and taking as many ♦ as I can take

play this the same in both 1] and 2]

Having now read your line, which is better, after the ♣J I play the T of ♦ from dummy

[PrinceNep]

*anxiously awaits KFay's response to pooltuna*

[wyman]

PrinceNep, on Mar 26 2010, 04:09 PM, said:

*anxiously awaits KFay's response to pooltuna*

[Phil]

hrothgar, on Mar 26 2010, 11:43 AM, said:

In a quality event, I'm ducking a club from the get go

(comment about someone playing in a quality event never ducking a club deleted by admin).

[Bbradley62]

pooltuna, on Mar 26 2010, 01:43 PM, said:

T1 Q♥
T2 small ♣ to J
T3 A♥
T4 A♣ cashing the rest of the ♣s if suit breaks and top 2♦; if not...
T5 K♣
T6 T♦ followed by taking another ♦ finesse and taking as many ♦ as I can take

play this the same in both 1] and 2]

Having now read your line, which is better, after the ♣J I play the T of ♦ from dummy

Hoping to save KFay from having a stroke...

The 10♦ is in your hand, the J♣ is in dummy.