[Oren Goren]

J:

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K:

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[helene_t]

J is just a 1♦ opening followed by a reverse. No reason to open that hand at the 2-level.

K is an Acol 2-bid if it's too strong for a 1♦ opening follow by 3♦, which I think it is.

[gwnn]

Agree with Ms. Thygesen.

[fromageGB]

I would open neither of these as a strong 2, and am happy to bid 1♦ with both. However, according to the EBU, both qualify as strong 2s if you want to.

[NickRW]

Both meet the minimum standards for a strong 2 according to the EBU. The second one is a reasonable candidate in my view. The first, with a second decent suit that you may have to show at the 3 level - hmm - not so happy with that one.

Playing Benji twos, I am definitely not wanting the auction to start something like 2♣-2♦-3♦-3♠ with the first (when my 3rd call will have to be 3N or higher and I haven't shown my second suit yet).

Nick

[Tola18]

I agree with precedessors, I think.
Having 2D Acol, both.
Having Acol-2 into Multi or Benji - better open the first with 1D.

[Pict]

I would never have opened J as an Acol 2, because for me it lacks the right quality in diamonds and has too much in Hearts.

K is a good Acol 2, because although it is a minor, it looks good for getting to 3NT when partner is negative.

[barryallen]

I just do not see the need to open hand J) as an Acol 2. If partner cannot respond appropriately over your 1♦ or subsequent X, do you really want to be in game? Is there any real problem with describing your hand with a positive response from partner?

Hand k) is a different matter and although no guarantee of game, would open that hand every time as an acol 2, as so little is required from partner for game or that little more for slam.

Maybe not the definition you were looking for or the text book opinion, but that would be my view.

[Oren Goren]

Thanks to all for your responses, and to all voters.

Given that most Acol Twos are hands that won't make game unless partner has responding values (??? yes/no? What percent?) the real gains when an Acol two is opened are (a) bidding weak responder hands w/less frequent interference by opponents? ( reaching slam.

Thanks.

[helene_t]

The benefit of strong 2-openings is
1) You can actually describe a hand like K. In standard methods you would either have to overbid with 2♣, or open 1♦ and then making some suboptimal rebid like jumpshifting on a non-suit.
2) You can bid gameforcing 2-suited hands in two turns. Say you hold AKQxx-AKQxx-Ax-x. You open 2♠ and rebid hearts. In standard methods you would have to underbid with a 1♠ opening, or bidding the hand in 3 turns beginning with a 2♣ opening, which will be awkward if opps interfere (or if partner does it).

2) is not universal, though. Some play strong 2-openings as nonforcing.

[NickRW]

Oren Goren, on Mar 2 2010, 10:12 PM, said:

Thanks to all for your responses, and to all voters.

Given that most Acol Twos are hands that won't make game unless partner has responding values (??? yes/no? What percent?)

I wouldn't like to give percentages, but this sort of thing:

Axxx
xxx
xxxx
xx

is quite likely worth a couple of tricks to an Acol 2♥ opener - the ace as one in its own right and then either the ace promoting the king to a trick in opener's hand or maybe a club ruff. This is below normal responding strength in Acol.

If you play Acol twos as not absolutely forcing (a lot do), then it is worth remembering what is probably worth a trick:

1. An ace
2. A king probably
3. Any couple of queens will usually scrape a trick somehow.
4. Qx trump support
5. xxx trump support and a possible ruffing value.

Lacking any of these it is permissible to pass an Acol 2 (if you play it as non forcing). Possession of any one of these features means you should respond - opener shows 8 playing tricks or the equivalent in high cards - but could be more like 9 playing tricks and you'd likely miss a game if you pass.

Nick

[P_Marlowe]

Neither, .... and I have played Acol twos for a while.

K - If we would talk about a major suit, than opening 2M has some
appeal, but since we are talking about diamonds, I would open
K on the 1 level.

With an Acol 2 you want to be in game, if p has a trick for you, a king.
Give p the king of clubs or the king of hearts, which game you want
to play?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[NickRW]

P_Marlowe, on Mar 2 2010, 11:37 PM, said:

Neither, .... and I have played Acol twos for a while.

K - If we would talk about a major suit, than opening 2M has some
appeal, but since we are talking about diamonds, I would open
K on the 1 level.

With an Acol 2 you want to be in game, if p has a trick for you, a king.
Give p the king of clubs or the king of hearts, which game you want
to play?

With kind regards
Marlowe

Not sure that I agree with you specifically about these examples, but the general principle you mention is good - when the main suit is a major, you only need to make 10 tricks - when it is a minor you need to make 11 for game or have enough high cards that 3NT is playable - so opener should be a little less keen to open strongly when his best suit is a minor.

Nick

[Vampyr]

helene_t, on Mar 2 2010, 11:23 PM, said:

The benefit of strong 2-openings is

2) You can bid gameforcing 2-suited hands in two turns. Say you hold AKQxx-AKQxx-Ax-x. You open 2♠ and rebid hearts. In standard methods you would have to underbid with a 1♠ opening, or bidding the hand in 3 turns beginning with a 2♣ opening, which will be awkward if opps interfere (or if partner does it).

Yes, I think that this is the biggest advantage to ACOL twos. With the given hand you can't really show a 2-suiter, especially if the longest one is only 5-cards. Playing Kokish you can show hearts and another, but still partner will not be expecting 5-5.

So you open 1S and get the dummy...

[barryallen]

P_Marlowe, on Mar 2 2010, 06:37 PM, said:

Neither, .... and I have played Acol twos for a while.

K - If we would talk about a major suit, than opening 2M has some
appeal, but since we are talking about diamonds, I would open
K on the 1 level.

With an Acol 2 you want to be in game, if p has a trick for you, a king.
Give p the king of clubs or the king of hearts, which game you want
to play?

With kind regards
Marlowe

If you don't open an acol two, with this as your preferred means for similar hands, you do not feel you will have a problem in trying to describe it fully later? The hand has possibly minimal defensive strength compared to its playing strength, something I could easily see as a worry later on in the auction.

You also risk partner passing with such little help required to make game? Just how is partner meant to have an idea that his single trick is good for game, when the opposition are busily communicating?

Many partnerships allow for an early GF bid that can stop in 4 of a minor, should this be viewed any different? Just out of interest, how would you differentiate between similar hands, one you would open 2♣ and the other you would open 2♦?