[MFA]

Scoring: IMP

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2♥ - (pass) - 4♥ - (pass)
pass - (4♠) - ??

Not a regular partner. He is a strong player and very aggressive in general, but we've agreed to be reasonably straight about our weak twos.

[pooltuna]

MFA, on Jan 21 2010, 06:43 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

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2♥ - (pass) - 4♥ - (pass)
pass - (4♠) - ??

Not a regular partner. He is a strong player and very aggressive in general, but we've agreed to be reasonably straight about our weak twos.

IMO you've already pushed this hand as far as it can go better to sit back and defend.

[hotShot]

You sung your song, now let them have it.
Just pass.

[xcurt]

Do not agree we should just pass because "we've shown our hand." There is a wide range of possible hands we could have here, from pure LAW raises to strong balanced hands that bid 4♥ as a pure play to make. We know a lot more about partner's hand than he does about ours.

Furthermore, although in theory this auction should probably not be forcing, it probably is for most partnerships, so passing is basically a transfer to 4♠x. I think we need to make a decision here. I'll assume that partner does not have slow spade tricks. This seems pretty safe, if RHO has an empty suit to go along with his lack of minor suit aces, he's offering up a big minus score with little upside. Making 5♥ then requires one minor suit king is onside (or onside in partner's hand), and partner holding ♥AQ9xxx with the K onside and 3-1 hearts, at a minimum. If partner has this optimal hand we can beat 4S one or maybe two tricks.

I think bidding is the long-term winner. We're going to concede some swings when we could be +200 instead of -100, these will probably balance out the pickups from posting +650. But sometimes RHO is going to catch the right minor holding (x, Kxx) and wrap 4♠x, which pushes me to bid.

[dake50]

5C. I'm catching partner with S-xxx HAQ109xx D-xx C-K10.
He sees double fit for 6H.

[Codo]

If rho is reasonable, he has a weak hand with very long spades. Maybe something like KQJxxxx,x,xxxx,x? Partner maybe xx,AKQxxx,xx,xxx?

I cannot find many layouts, where 5 Heart will win, so I would double. If this is already a double game swing, it won't cost much. They won't make many overtricks and maybe everything is fine and we beat it even -2 on pure power..

[P_Marlowe]

X.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: If you dream about slam, you should have bid 2NT instead of 4H.

[gnasher]

Does RHO have 1087xx x KJ10xxx x? If so, he's probably about to get rather a good dummy.

xcurt said:

Furthermore, although in theory this auction should probably not be forcing, it probably is for most partnerships, so passing is basically a transfer to 4♠x.

I don't understand this. Opposite a forcing pass partner should bid if he has xxx or xx in spades, and double if he has a spade trick. With spade wastage that isn't a defensive trick, he should look at the rest of his hand. That works for me.

Is pass forcing? Yes. They didn't want to play in game originally. Instead, they waited for us to bid game and then bid 4♠. Their auction says that they're saving, so pass is forcing.

I pass.

[OleBerg]

Double.

Pass is definitely not forcing in my book. LHO could have been stuck with a good hand, and RHO could have values just below an overcall.

Furthermore, when a partnership has had the option of taking the strong sequence to game, but has chosen another, pass is not forcing. Even if the auction sounds like a sacrifice. (Which it doesn't nescesarily do here.)

So I would never pass.

What I'd do would also depend somehow on my opponents, how solid I would expect them to be.

Hiddeen:

Spoiler

Checked out the opponents. I'd probably bid 5H vs them.

Against most people, I would expect 4♠ to be down often enough to merit a double, and 5♥ to be a winner to few times to bid it.

[Fluffy]

4♠ on this sequence normally is based on a 2 suiter hard. The 4♠ bidder has hit partner with big support, if dummy has shortness in RHO's minor they will make many tricks.

I am bidding 5♥ in attack/defence.

[MFA]

Pass would not be forcing for me, and it's safe to assume that my partner thinks the same.

And I wouldn't want pass to be forcing. We have not had a strong sequence but just bashed game. On the other hand the opponents are under huge pressure. Imo it's not reasonable to establish a forcing pass on the basis that their auction is unconvincing. We are the ones who pushed them into a guessing game, where they might have had to pass strong or interesting hands on their first round.

This sequence could easily cover hands where they have 10, 11 or 12 tricks in spades, no problem.

But a nonforcing pass is a possible bid. This sequence is perhaps one where partner really could take another bid if it looks right, even when he is not forced?!

[Jlall]

Yeah I don't agree that pass is forcing. RHO might have 8 spades for instance, or 7 and a hand that is a normal 3S opener (don't agree that this auction usually shows a 2 suiter, to me it shows a "preempt over a preempt" type hand), and in that case I would never want to be in a forcing pass...sometimes RHO buys a good dummy.

[MFA]

Scoring: IMP

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I tried the ridiculous double which was not a big success. After a heart lead, two rounds of trumps and a small diamond up, I was still in dream land and decided to play for a very unlikely position and declarer having butchered the hand (5-3-1-4 with ♣K). So I rose ♦A and deservedly conceded an extra 200: -1190.

Bidding 5♥ is likely to result in playing 5♠X though. Perhaps one should just pass here.

Surprisingly many of the tables had copied our auction.

[gnasher]

After my forcing pass, partner would show his second suit with 5♣, then when LHO bid 5♠ I'd at least know not to double.

[jdonn]

One lesson I've actually learned from gib is if someone makes a ridiculous looking bid after passing don't assume it's the bid that was ridiculous (and thus they should be doubled). It might be the earlier pass that was ridiculous instead.

[Jlall]

I dont see why people are acting like 4S is a ridiculous bid no matter what RHO has. It is quite common to have like a 3S opener and be forced to pass 2H and then come back in with 4S.

I also have no idea why people would expect to set 4S withour hand...we have 2 tricks and partner preempted. If RHO does have a weak hand with long spades, it's unlikely he has either minor suit king.

Do you really expect to beat them 2 in 4S ever opposite a weak 2 in hearts?