[the hog]

IMPs. Nv vs vul. You are playing with a very strong partner, and you play a fairly freewheeling style of pre empts at this vulnerability.

3C (P) 3NT (P)
4H

You hold
AJx
Axxx
AKQTxx
void

You have decided to bid 3NT over pd's nv 3C opening. You could have bid a forcing 3D, but decided there wasn't much point.

Partner now bids 4H. What now, shoot partner or something different?

[Mbodell]

I pass. Partner is probably 2-4-0-7 or 3-4-0-6. If this is a cue for nt/club slam then sorry partner I didn't pass the test. I believe Fred's rule that when in doubt bids (especially game in a major) are nf and natural is a good one.

[bluecalm]

I think partner is 7-5 with something like x xxxxx - KQJxxx; looks like 4♥ is the game to play opposite this one.

Quote

2-4-0-7 or 3-4-0-6

My partner would be in for looong talk if he bid 4♥ if any of those, especially second one. I mean, c'mon we didn't bid 3♥, how the hell he is bidding 4♥ now ?
I also don't believe he would open 3♣ having Kxxxx or better on the side.

[rogerclee]

1) My partner would never pull without 5 hearts. Sure, it is weird to open 3C with a 5 card major, but it's (way) weirder to pull 3N to 4H without 5 hearts.
2) Given that he has 5 hearts, I would guess his trump quality is likely not very good.

Still our hand is very good for slam, so I would bid 6H. In the unlikely case that partner decided to bid 4H with only 4, I still like my chances.

[flytoox]

What is sure is pd's heart suit is broke and I will be happy to make 4H.

[jdonn]

I saw Richard Pavlicek do this like 10 years ago on x xxxx x QT9xxxx or so, and his partner bid on with a very good hand with 4 hearts and went down, and RP was not happy...

[Fluffy]

I have had this sequence once, partner looking for a swing opened on 3♦ with some 5-6 reds. I'd pass

[ewj]

Wtf, if partner only has 4 hearts, then he's a complete fish imo...I'm also going to try 6H.

[the hog]

opener held
x
xxxxx
void
KQTxxxx

6H was not a bad spot, but H broke 3-1.

[hanp]

The_Hog, on Jan 21 2010, 05:34 AM, said:

6H was not a bad spot

Yes it was.

[OleBerg]

hanp, on Jan 21 2010, 02:30 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Jan 21 2010, 05:34 AM, said:

6H was not a bad spot

Yes it was.

Depends on your definition of a bad spot. (It was the wrong spot obviously.)

[Jlall]

OleBerg, on Jan 21 2010, 07:44 AM, said:

hanp, on Jan 21 2010, 02:30 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Jan 21 2010, 05:34 AM, said:

6H was not a bad spot

Yes it was.

Depends on your definition of a bad spot. (It was the wrong spot obviously.)

uhh can't think of any rational definitions of "bad spot" that this doesn't fit...

[OleBerg]

Jlall, on Jan 21 2010, 02:48 PM, said:

OleBerg, on Jan 21 2010, 07:44 AM, said:

hanp, on Jan 21 2010, 02:30 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Jan 21 2010, 05:34 AM, said:

6H was not a bad spot

Yes it was.

Depends on your definition of a bad spot. (It was the wrong spot obviously.)

uhh can't think of any rational definitions of "bad spot" that this doesn't fit...

How about: "A spot that will give you a net loss of more than 2,3 IMP's pr. hand".

This, predictably, depends on the definition of rational.

[gnasher]

I think it shows an amalgam of Pavlicek's hand and the one the Hog's partner held: something like x Jxxxx - Q10xxxxx. With good clubs, you can expect 3NT to make, so have no reason to move. With only four hearts, you have no reason to think that 4♥ will be better.

Anyway, you definitely shouldn't have hearts as good as Qxxxx and clubs that can be set up with two ruffs, so this is a clearcut pass.

[Apollo81]

rogerclee, on Jan 20 2010, 10:03 PM, said:

1) My partner would never pull without 5 hearts. Sure, it is weird to open 3C with a 5 card major, but it's (way) weirder to pull 3N to 4H without 5 hearts.

Strongly disagree. If you play a freewheeling style of preempts and you've opened something like x Jxxx x JT9xxxx, your odds in a suit game are better than your odds in 3NT, and you might as well probe for a heart fit on the way to 5♣.

I have never opened 3♣ or 3♦ with a 5-card major on the side in my life.

[Cyberyeti]

Apollo81, on Jan 21 2010, 10:13 AM, said:

rogerclee, on Jan 20 2010, 10:03 PM, said:

1) My partner would never pull without 5 hearts. Sure, it is weird to open 3C with a 5 card major, but it's (way) weirder to pull 3N to 4H without 5 hearts.

Strongly disagree. If you play a freewheeling style of preempts and you've opened something like x Jxxx x JT9xxxx, your odds in a suit game are better than your odds in 3NT, and you might as well probe for a heart fit on the way to 5♣.

I have never opened 3♣ or 3♦ with a 5-card major on the side in my life.

OK, so what do you open on x, 9xxxx, AKxxxxx, void (I posted this hand for opinions elsewhere a while ago), and at 3 tables out of 4 this was opened 3♦ in a high level teams of 8 match red all 3rd seat. You might open more in 3rd, but are you really passing rather than bidding 3♦ in 1st or 2nd ?

Partner knows you play freewheeling preempts, what are you going to tell him after you bid 4H on the hand you give when he's bid 3N on Kxx, A, AKQJxxxx, x.

TBF if partner has 5 hearts, 6♥ is on no more than a 2-2 trump break most of the time, so it's not unreasonable to bid it, and can be a lot better if he has ♥Q or J.

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Jan 21 2010, 07:58 AM, said:

I think it shows an amalgam of Pavlicek's hand and the one the Hog's partner held: something like x Jxxxx - Q10xxxxx. With good clubs, you can expect 3NT to make, so have no reason to move. With only four hearts, you have no reason to think that 4♥ will be better.

Anyway, you definitely shouldn't have hearts as good as Qxxxx and clubs that can be set up with two ruffs, so this is a clearcut pass.

Pavlicek had 4 hearts, 4 bad ones in fact. I think the one thing that is certain when someone bids this way is they should have a very awful hand.

[gnasher]

Cyberyeti, on Jan 21 2010, 04:26 PM, said:

OK, so what do you open on x, 9xxxx, AKxxxxx, void (I posted this hand for opinions elsewhere a while ago), and at 3 tables out of 4 this was opened 3♦ in a high level teams of 8 match red all 3rd seat. You might open more in 3rd, but are you really passing rather than bidding 3♦ in 1st or 2nd ?

Third seat is completely different from first. I think opening that hand 3D in first seat is awful - it's far too suitable for playing in hearts.

Quote

TBF if partner has 5 hearts, 6♥ is on no more than a 2-2 trump break most of the time, so it's not unreasonable to bid it, and can be a lot better if he has ♥Q or J.

Really? How will you play it opposite x xxxxx - KJ9xxxx on a spade lead? Even making it x Qxxxx - KJ9xxxx doesn't get you close to 50%.

[Cyberyeti]

gnasher, on Jan 21 2010, 01:28 PM, said:

Cyberyeti, on Jan 21 2010, 04:26 PM, said:

OK, so what do you open on x, 9xxxx, AKxxxxx, void (I posted this hand for opinions elsewhere a while ago), and at 3 tables out of 4 this was opened 3♦ in a high level teams of 8 match red all 3rd seat. You might open more in 3rd, but are you really passing rather than bidding 3♦ in 1st or 2nd ?

Third seat is completely different from first. I think opening that hand 3D in first seat is awful - it's far too suitable for playing in hearts.

Quote

TBF if partner has 5 hearts, 6♥ is on no more than a 2-2 trump break most of the time, so it's not unreasonable to bid it, and can be a lot better if he has ♥Q or J.

Really? How will you play it opposite x xxxxx - KJ9xxxx on a spade lead? Even making it x Qxxxx - KJ9xxxx doesn't get you close to 50%.

OK, point taken, I read it as AKQJ10 of diamonds.

As to your first point, the man said he had never opened 3m with a 5 card major which is what that example was for.

[gnasher]

Cyberyeti, on Jan 21 2010, 08:29 PM, said:

As to your first point, the man said he had never opened 3m with a 5 card major which is what that example was for.

OK, but I was answering the question "are you really passing rather than bidding 3♦ in 1st or 2nd ?"