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Over Strong 1NT How to approach this hand?

#1 User is offline   bd71 

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Posted 2010-January-17, 19:27

Scoring: IMP

RHO opens a 15-17 1N.
Your agreed interference method is DONT.
What's your move?

If you happen to double (showing one-suited hand),
LHO bids 3N after a 30-second pause, and it's passed back to you.
What now?

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#2 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2010-January-17, 20:13

ditto again...


4h if this shows hearts.

never double.
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#3 User is offline   Dirk Kuijt 

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Posted 2010-January-17, 20:16

Yes, double (showing a one-suiter) playing DONT. 7-4-1-1 hands need to be played in the long suit.

Unfortunately, responder's 3NT is likely based on a long minor suit, so I'm hardly confident of beating this. However, red vs. white, I can easily go for 500 in 4H, and they aren't a lock for 3NT, so I'm not going to sacrifice.

I'm leading the Q and hoping that partner has a little stuff in the minors that prevents them from taking 8 minor suit tricks.

codo said:

It is a fact that most people here write as if their opinion is a dogmatic fact.

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My opinion is that this ought to win the award for best self-referential quote of the new year.
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#4 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-January-17, 21:28

I really have no idea why one would play a X as a one suited hand. What have you told partner?
To be honest, I would probably bid an immediate 4H over 1NT.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#5 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-January-17, 21:41

Quote

ditto again...


4h if this shows hearts.

never double.


I agree. 4H.
It must be close contest between DONT and CAPP for the worst agreement ever to make it as popular convention. Seriously DONT play it.
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#6 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-January-17, 22:19

The_Hog, on Jan 17 2010, 10:28 PM, said:

I really have no idea why one would play a X as a one suited hand. What have you told partner?

To bid 2 so you can tell him your suit (though not on this hand of course). What is your objection?
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#7 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-January-17, 22:44

Quote

To bid 2♣ so you can tell him your suit (though not on this hand of course). What is your objection?


The objection is that if they bid something at 3 level (or even 2level) your partner is never able to compete because you can have any suit.
Probably playing double as one major (which is quite silly) is much better than playing double as any one suiter.
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#8 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2010-January-17, 22:48

bluecalm, on Jan 17 2010, 11:44 PM, said:

Quote

To bid 2♣ so you can tell him your suit (though not on this hand of course). What is your objection?


The objection is that if they bid something at 3 level (or even 2level) your partner is never able to compete because you can have any suit.
Probably playing double as one major (which is quite silly) is much better than playing double as any one suiter.

There is the same objection to 2 one suit, double some combination of 2 suits, 2 one major, etc. I mean you can play all natural over 1NT or landy or something, but playing some bids that take a round to unwind isn't that unusual. Besides what are they likely to bid on the 3 level when we wanted to play in some suit?
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#9 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2010-January-17, 22:55

The only real problem with both DONT and CAPP (especially DONT) is that people abuse them.
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#10 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-January-17, 23:37

jdonn, on Jan 18 2010, 11:19 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jan 17 2010, 10:28 PM, said:

I really have no idea why one would play a X as a one suited hand. What have you told partner?

To bid 2 so you can tell him your suit (though not on this hand of course). What is your objection?

I think that the double is far too easily pre empted Josh.
Say you have H, for example and it goes (1NT) x (2S) It is going to be a bit hard to get the H fit, if you even have one.
I really dislike this x to show a single suiter. Yes, I have the same objection to 2C showing any s/s.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#11 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2010-January-18, 02:40

Hi,

#1 it is either double, which is ok, or 3H
Given the vulnerability, your hand looks roughly like a 3H bid.
#2 Pass, if I decided to double 1NT, I will pass 3NT, bidding 4H is
asking for 500-800, I will never reach dummy.
I will loose 2 tricks in the minors, 1 heart and 2-3 spades makes
500-800 vs. their 400.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#12 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-January-18, 03:37

jdonn, on Jan 18 2010, 05:48 AM, said:

There is the same objection to 2 one suit, double some combination of 2 suits, 2 one major, etc. I mean you can play all natural over 1NT or landy or something, but playing some bids that take a round to unwind isn't that unusual. Besides what are they likely to bid on the 3 level when we wanted to play in some suit?

I agree that all defences to 1NT have strengths and weaknesses. One could equally ask "Why would I play a defence to 1NT where I have to be willing to play at the three-level if I'm going to show a major-minor two-suiter?"

I do think, though, that defences like DONT do better than they should, because people don't exploit these weaknesses. Over something that shows an unspecified one-suiter, there's a good case for playing 3 and 3 as to play. If advancer has support for one major but not the other, he won't be very well placed.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#13 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-January-18, 04:02

P_Marlowe, on Jan 18 2010, 03:40 PM, said:

Hi,

#1 it is either double, which is ok, or 3H
Given the vulnerability, your hand looks roughly like a 3H bid.
#2 Pass, if I decided to double 1NT, I will pass 3NT, bidding 4H is
asking for 500-800, I will never reach dummy.
I will loose 2 tricks in the minors, 1 heart and 2-3 spades makes
500-800 vs. their 400.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Who says you will never reach dummy Uwe? Opp opened 1NT 15-17, you have 12. That still leaves 11 points at least out. Why cant pd have something?
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#14 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2010-January-18, 04:05

I agree that my modified dont....very close to meckwell...gets insanely good results.....


As i get horrible results i am open to changing it.

Please note it is not a matter of if but a matter of when...down the years......
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