[mr1303]

Scoring: IMP

---

Handicap teams, on the final 8 boards. You have to give the opposition 45 IMPs as a head-start, and you've picked up 25 so far. This is board 5 of the final set, and the others have been fairly flat so far.

RHO deals and opens 2NT, and the auction proceeds:

2NT (P) 4NT (P)
6NT ?

Do you double here?

[jdonn]

Generally, if I'm at all unsure and this is some type of imp scoring, I'm just going to pass and take the money. But really it depends on your opponents. The worse they are the more likely I double since they aren't running. But with "good" opponents we have all heard these stories of how the other hand runs to some suit and partner leads the wrong thing, so not then.

[pooltuna]

mr1303, on Jan 17 2010, 11:44 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

Handicap teams, on the final 8 boards. You have to give the opposition 45 IMPs as a head-start, and you've picked up 25 so far. This is board 5 of the final set, and the others have been fairly flat so far.

RHO deals and opens 2NT, and the auction proceeds:

2NT (P) 4NT (P)
6NT ?

Do you double here?

So if I double I get a whopping extra 100 points as in 860 vs the 760 I was going to get and for a net of 0 extra IMPs while risking a runout by my LHO and which puts my partner on lead? I am on lead and will just settle for my 13 IMPs.

[Little Kid]

Wouldn't be a junior if I didn't double this! If they run to a better contract and it ends bad I'll look like an idiot but it wouldn't be the first nor last time I don't expect them to run too often though, it seems like they have balanced hands with no clear place to run to. If we need to catch up with them I am not letting these contracts go through, lets put on the pressure!

[whereagles]

clear cut pass.

unless opps are nuts, you're not setting this more than 1. Pard should have a yarbourough and won't have an easy time finding the right lead if they pull to 7 of a suit, which might very well make.

Doubling here is extremely risky and I'd say it even borders on recklessness due to the effects it might have on partnership trust.

[jdonn]

I understand the imp odds and it's totally fine to not double but let's not lose our heads or make silly arguments. Doubling is not very risky at all. Responder will not have a singleton diamond, and even he somehow does he will not run, and even if he somehow does he may not make. Opener could possibly have a singleton queen of diamonds or something but if opener runs they are down in 7 anyway in that case since we are on lead. I mean if you double what are you really worried will happen, specifically? Do you normally run as dummy after 2NT p 4NT p 6NT X?

[pooltuna]

jdonn, on Jan 17 2010, 02:07 PM, said:

I understand the imp odds and it's totally fine to not double but let's not lose our heads or make silly arguments. Doubling is not very risky at all. Responder will not have a singleton diamond, and even he somehow does he will not run, and even if he somehow does he may not make. Opener could possibly have a singleton queen of diamonds or something but if opener runs they are down in 7 anyway in that case since we are on lead. I mean if you double what are you really worried will happen, specifically? Do you normally run as dummy after 2NT p 4NT p 6NT X?

Agree it is low odds that a) you don't set them and B ) that they run because you X. Nevertheless the risk/reward ratio looks fairly high

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

if you have trust in your estimation for the previous 4 bords,
you need to make the X.

After all you are -20IMPs, i.e. you only have 4 bords go, to get
your 20IMPs.
Besides if your complematries are good, they wont reach 6NT
with at most 32HCP, so if it makes it will be a big minus anyway.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[gnasher]

I wouldn't double. We're already getting 13 IMPs, and I don't want to risk 13 in the other direction.

Also, the chance that the first four boards actually are flat is low, unless they were all solid 26-point 3NTs. Maybe the results were normal in our room. but we do have teammates.

[P_Marlowe]

gnasher, on Jan 17 2010, 07:27 PM, said:

I wouldn't double. We're already getting 13 IMPs, and I don't want to risk 13 in the other direction.

yes, my argumentation regarding this point was ...

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Little Kid]

If their bidding is reasonable on this hand, I am guessing they will have a similar auction at the other table. Just because they are off AK♦ doesn't mean that their bidding was bad and we are getting a swing anyway. They could easily have a strong 11count opposite a 21-count. Our teamies might very well end in the unlucky 6NT too, doubled.

If their bidding is too optimistic, we might even get them down 2 in 6NT on a good day and doubling is crucial. I really doubt the opps will be pulling this double to the 7-level as they have denied good suits. Even if they do, they still need to make 13 tricks on 2 balanced hands with 32 pts at most AND LHO declaring AND partner must lead the wrong suit. The much more likely scenario to me seems that your teamies are in 6NTx and passing means losing us 100 pts. The double in 6NT off a cashing AK might also affect your opponents' play on the next few boards in your favour.

Fwiw, I wouldn't double this if we weren't trailing versus much weaker opponents.

[Codo]

I liked the last argument.

My teammates- who happen to trail by 45 imps may have strechted and opened a 20-21 NT with 19 and a nice suit. Partner- with 13 HCPS simply blast 6 NT- or something similar.

I think that loosing big by passing is a much higher propability then loosing big because they will find 7 in a suit making on an unlucky lead.

[mr1303]

Well, I did double (thinking of the 20 odd IMP deficit) and picked up a fair few, on a duplicated auction, but they didn't double at the other table.

These were the full hands:

Scoring: IMP

---

So +1100 at my table, -400 at the other table.

What would you lead against 7C from the East hand?

[whereagles]

probably a heart.. curtains

[gnasher]

Some years ago, playing in an IMP pairs against a much stronger pair, I found myself looking at an AK, and heard RHO bid 6NT on a non-fit auction. Having read all the right books, I passed and cashed my ace-king.

The next day, I saw the same hand in the bulletin. Somebody with my hand had doubled 6NT, dummy had pulled to seven of a suit, the other hand had led the wrong suit, and the grand slam had made on a squeeze.

[cherdanno]

The last time I didn't double an opponents' slam because we were going to win 13 IMPs anyway we picked up five (-3 in slam at our table, -1 in game at my teammates table). So I don't like that argument very much.
If they run, I believe doubling again should be lightner (asking for a high-ranked suit). So when I double 6N and don't double 7C, maybe partner has a shot at leading a diamond...

Anyway, the moral of the story seems to be to try to find teammates who can bid

[jdonn]

It's funny how in the stories where they run the partner never happens to find the right lead anyway. I will probably be the star of the story where I run from 6NT which was making to a grand that goes down.

In any case, yes it wouldn't hurt to find teammates who understand stayman.

[Jlall]

I had a hand once like 13 with 6 clubs and 2 aces and an xx suit at a regional. It went 1N(14-16) p 2C p 2D p 6N p p X and everyone started picking up their bidding cards. I ran to 7C (given that I had 2 aces, no chance we were off 2 aces, so we must be off an AK, and we can probably make 7C if they don't find the lead). RHO did not get his lead right and it made.

At the other table it just went 1N p 6N p p X so now my hand couldn't run and have partner play it.

Doubling with an AK in these situations is very bad.

[jdonn]

Jlall, on Jan 18 2010, 07:27 PM, said:

I had a hand once like 13 with 6 clubs and 2 aces and an xx suit at a regional. It went 1N(14-16) p 2C p 2D p 6N p p X and everyone started picking up their bidding cards. I ran to 7C (given that I had 2 aces, no chance we were off 2 aces, so we must be off an AK, and we can probably make 7C if they don't find the lead). RHO did not get his lead right and it made.

At the other table it just went 1N p 6N p p X so now my hand couldn't run and have partner play it.

Doubling with an AK in these situations is very bad.

Have you ever seen responder run on these auctions?

[Mbodell]

mr1303, on Jan 18 2010, 10:36 AM, said:

What would you lead against 7C from the East hand?

I would lead a spade, because I think the danger is you have AK in a long suit and it will go away on declarer's long suit. From my perspective I'm in most trouble if your long suit is pointy and declarers is hearts. So I'll try to hit your long suit. Maybe I should know that a 7c double is for spades, and that you not making should mean I lead diamonds, but I don't think I'd realize that at the table prior to this thread, and I'd lead the major relying on the inference that responder doesn't have a major (let alone 2!) since he didn't stayman.