Help
I've read about people that play a 1M rebid by opener as unlimited and forcing, so a jump can be used for other purposes. It's about the following auctions:
1♣-1♦-1♥
1♣-1♦-1♠
1♣-1♥-1♠
1♦-1♥-1♠
Usually I prefer XYZ (or "2-way checkback" or whatever you want to call it) but it seems like you can't do this when opener is unlimited. 2♣ is a puppet to 2♦ which may be a signoff. Same goes for 2NT which is a puppet to 3♣ (signoff or any GF 5-5).
Does anybody play this forcing 1M rebid, and how do you continue? Do you use 4th suit GF or 4th suit F1? Can you still use 2-way checkback and let opener "zoom" with a strong hand?
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1m-1X-1M forcing yes it's natural, but not standard
#1
- mmm Duvel
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Posted 2010-January-12, 07:53
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#2
- World International Master without a clue
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Posted 2010-January-12, 08:50
I have always played forcing, althou not unlimitted, there is no big difference, with strong hands you don't have to accept the sing offs. But some biddings get complicated (you have to differentiate a weak had with diamond void from a strong hand)
#3
- The Abbess
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Posted 2010-January-12, 10:12
I suppose a 19+ hand could make some descriptive bid over 2♣. It should be a GF then, just like a jump shift in standard methods.
Will need to discuss this with Shogi, we do play 1♠ as forcing but have just recently agreed to switch to XYZ, haven't worked it out yet.
Will need to discuss this with Shogi, we do play 1♠ as forcing but have just recently agreed to switch to XYZ, haven't worked it out yet.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#4
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Posted 2010-January-12, 13:51
Don't you have this problem playing XYZ anyway?
Even where the 1M rebid is not forcing, there are hands for opener in the 16-18 range where you can often make a game when partner has less than invite values. These are hands where you'd bid on after a sequence like 1♦-1♥-1♠-2♦ natural, not to force to game but to make another try. Don't you have to "reject the puppet" on such hands to prevent being dropped in a silly contract? There are also hands where you have extra shape and want to show it, like say you are 4207 after 1♣-1♥-1♠-2♣... you really don't want partner dropping you in 2♦ just because he has some heart-diamond canape hand.
This is one of several reasons I don't like playing XYZ, even though I love 2-way NMF over 1NT rebids.
Even where the 1M rebid is not forcing, there are hands for opener in the 16-18 range where you can often make a game when partner has less than invite values. These are hands where you'd bid on after a sequence like 1♦-1♥-1♠-2♦ natural, not to force to game but to make another try. Don't you have to "reject the puppet" on such hands to prevent being dropped in a silly contract? There are also hands where you have extra shape and want to show it, like say you are 4207 after 1♣-1♥-1♠-2♣... you really don't want partner dropping you in 2♦ just because he has some heart-diamond canape hand.
This is one of several reasons I don't like playing XYZ, even though I love 2-way NMF over 1NT rebids.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#5
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Posted 2010-January-22, 02:42
awm, on Jan 12 2010, 02:51 PM, said:
XYZ... Don't you have to "reject the puppet" on such hands to prevent being dropped in a silly contract? There are also hands where you have extra shape and want to show it, like say you are 4207 after 1♣-1♥-1♠-2♣... you really don't want partner dropping you in 2♦ just because he has some heart-diamond canape hand.
This is one of several reasons I don't like playing XYZ, even though I love 2-way NMF over 1NT rebids.
This is one of several reasons I don't like playing XYZ, even though I love 2-way NMF over 1NT rebids.
Aren't most of those reasons not to play XYZ after 1♣ auctions? It seems like most of the concerns go away if you open 1♦ initially, since now partner can't drop you in 2♦ without it being a fit-based decision (rather than a unilateral one by him).
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