[Flame]

Thxs for the advice Luis, i agree with you, at the table i considered 2d, but decided on 1h, next time i will go for the 2d option.

[luis]

Chamaco, on Jul 5 2004, 01:55 PM, said:

luis, on Jul 5 2004, 01:52 PM, said:

I will reckon that at MPs your style can be enough to reach the "stupid-panel 3N" game and get a non-heart lead and maybe a good score, at IMPs both experience and general theory will show you how wrong the 1♥ bid is.

Luis,
as usual with your posts, I find this comment very interesting.

Would you suggest the same approach if the 1♦ opening were a Precision "nebulous" diamond (13-15 bal + 4441s + "real diamond" hands) ?

Chamaco:
It's different but as long as 1♦ can't be a hand with clubs instead of diamonds (it happens when you don't have a 2♣ precision style opening bid) then I think a 2♦ bid is the right way to start the bidding.

With my pd I play viking club after our "nebulous 1♦" 2♦ is 10+ with 5+ diamonds. Opener's rebids are:
2h/2s: Spade/Heart features, maximum hand.
2N: Minimum hand without a real diamond suit (2/3 cards)
3d: Minimum hand with a real diamond suit.
3h/3s/3N: Heart/Spade/Club splinter with maximum and 4/5 diamonds (usually 5)

So far I've missed only one 4-4 major fit Axxx - Jxxx, we played 6d making discarding the major in my pd's clubs :-)

Luis

[mishovnbg]

Pass. Because 2♠ is GF 3NT is fast arrival and show min!
Misho

[the hog]

"I will reckon that at MPs your style can be enough to reach the "stupid-panel 3N" game and get a non-heart lead and maybe a good score, at IMPs both experience and general theory will show you how wrong the 1♥ bid is. "

Here we go again as I didn't see the continuations of this. 1H is automatic! 2D playing inverted raises is just wrong.

[whereagles]

Well, bidding 1H may get you stuck for a rebid, but only of opener insists on diamonds. If opener bids anything else than 2D, you're ok.

1D 1H
1S 2C, followed by 3D

1D 1H
1NT 2C, checkback or NMF or whatever you play

1D 1H
2C 2S, followed by 3D, or 3NT if pard bids 3H

1D 1H
(any strong bid) 4D

1D 1H
2D ?? now you're a bit stuck, since the forcing bids are 2S/3C, both of which can mess up your auction. The bid that distorts my hand the least seems to be 3D. A slight underbid, it's true, but puts partner in an excellent position to judge our side's potential. If for some reason I couldn't afford the underbid, I'd try 3NT. (Eventually 5D at imps, since 65 minor fits often plays 5m better than 3NT. 65 'cos opener would bid 1S/1NT/2C with a 5-card suit...)

In any case, Luis' sequence 1D-2D does have merit. It runs the slight risk of missing the heart fit, but simplifies the auction immensely.

[Fluffy]

Chamaco, on Jul 5 2004, 12:48 PM, said:

Fluffy, on Jul 5 2004, 12:37 PM, said:

All you need for slam is 2 aces and singleton ♥,  and given the maximum partner´s hand singleton ♥ nearly means 2 aces as well.

Given the case it could be that kind of hand where you win 6♦ while you go down in 3NT.

We know pard has not 4+ clubs by the bidding. If he has 4 clubs and chose to rebid diamonds (a bad suit) he must be super weak.

Disagree, what he is for sure is not 'balanced', this excludes the 2263 option.
I play the 3NT rebid as stronger than 2NT, althou after reading Misho I begun to think I am wrong

Quote

We also know he has not 4 spades
We know he has a club stopper.

So probably he has 3 clubs, now you can see he is probably either 3163, 1363, 1273 or 2173.

Quote

Hence he cannot have a singleton H unless he has the perfect hand with 6331/7321 etc. Unfortunately my partners tend to hold the perfect hand for slams only when I do not bid them 

Wich is about 50%, given that oponents stayed silence at level 1 with a possible ♠9 card fit, it is even much more.

Quote

More seriously, going down in 3NT instead of 6♦ making would not be the first time (like going down in a 29 hcp game), I think it is a matter of percentage and about not going against the field in close calls at MP unless a swing is needed

That´s right, I didn´t see the MP, but still I think 6♦ is worth a try, and we can always stop in 5♦ or 4NT, wich isn´t quite bad, 5♦... 400/420 can be equal to 3NT, since on 3NT once oponents misslead ♥ at first, you are uunable to give away any trick, wich tends to mean only 8-10 tricks.

[PriorKnowledge]

4D, forcing, looking for slam. Alternative, 6D.

Your partner has bid and rebid diam and then jumped in NT. You have 5 card support and game force hand.

NOTE: Jumping in NT is NEVER Fast Arrival and always shows extra.

[tysen2k]

Trpltrbl, on Jul 5 2004, 08:32 AM, said:

Flame, on Jul 5 2004, 08:22 AM, said:

luis, on Jul 5 2004, 07:42 AM, said:

Abstain, what the hell is 2♠ ??

2sp ment to show some power in spade to help partner bid 3nt if he got something in club.
How should i'v bid it ?
3D doesnt sound like forcing to me.

Forcing with an 11 count ?
I think if you bid 3♦, it should show about 10-11 HCP with ♦ fit, isn't that what you have ?

Mike

Given partner likely has 6 diamonds, this hand is way to strong for a NF 3♦. This is way more than a typical 11-count.

I would have initially responded 2♦ inverted even playing that it denies a 4cM. If I were somehow forbidden to bid 2♦ with this heart suit, I think the bidding was fine and would pass now at matchpoints. Playing IMPs I would investigate further with 4D.

[Trpltrbl]

Like Misho said if 2♠ is GF then 3 NT is a minimum hand.
Guess you guys are used to having a pd that always has perfect hand.
I play bridge in the real world, and my pd's very rarely have that perfect hand.
And not showing a ♦ fit is the biggest crime. After I bid 3♦ and pd has decent hand he can still bid 3♠ as an asking bid.
I just wish I could get some of you guys in my money game, need new G V.

Mike

[the hog]

Agree with Mike. Pity you don't live here, we seem to think alike.

[Trpltrbl]

When I get my G V I'll can be there in about 12 hrs.

Mike

[Fluffy]

PriorKnowledge, on Jul 7 2004, 02:17 PM, said:

4D, forcing, looking for slam. Alternative, 6D.

Your partner has bid and rebid diam and then jumped in NT. You have 5 card support and game force hand.

NOTE: Jumping in NT is NEVER Fast Arrival and always shows extra.

I had a ton of doubts about this question, so asked daddy about teh difference between 2NT & 3NT.

Very few would have guessed the answer, 3NT i a really good stopper, let say AJ10 or so, while 2NT leaves space because of a doubt about the best contract (maybe because too strong).

[Trpltrbl]

Quote

Very few would have guessed the answer, 3NT i a really good stopper, let say AJ10 or so, while 2NT leaves space because of a doubt about the best contract (maybe because too strong).

I like that, will insert that in my bag of tricks.
Always learning

Mike