[raist]

I just have a simple question about how people play prepared club
as i understand it, all balanced hands which do not fall into your opening NT range are opened 1C

so 1D openings are usually 4+ unbalanced

my question is

5332 hands with 5 diamonds open 1C or 1D?

[manudude03]

There are 2 ways of playing prepared club: 1♦ is often balanced, or its always unbalanced (5+ unless 4441).

I play the former personally, but that doesn't answer your question.
I believe 3352 hands are opened 1♦ in the unbalanced camp (over which 1NT over 1M shows this general shape), but maybe I'm not the best person to answer that.

[karlson]

The way you've described it, if 1♦ is unbalanced, then by that definiton, 3352 opens 1♣.

I play this system with several partners at the moment, and I'm not really convinced of the merits yet.

I know some people play 1♦ is unbalanced or (5332) with 5 diamonds. There are lots of different styles out there.

[raist]

manudude03, on Nov 23 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

There are 2 ways of playing prepared club: 1♦ is often balanced, or its always unbalanced (5+ unless 4441).

I play the former personally, but that doesn't answer your question.
I believe 3352 hands are opened 1♦ in the unbalanced camp (over which 1NT over 1M shows this general shape), but maybe I'm not the best person to answer that.

i understand that with 5C4D, most open 1D intending to rebid 2C (assuming you hand is not suitable to rebid 2C, nor strong enough to reverse)


you said that with 5332 diamonds you open 1D and over 1M you rebid 1NT to show that

but what if you are, say

1453
you open 1D, partner responds 1S?
don't you rebid 1NT too?
or you rebid 2D?

[manudude03]

raist, on Nov 24 2009, 02:42 AM, said:

manudude03, on Nov 23 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

There are 2 ways of playing prepared club: 1♦ is often balanced, or its always unbalanced (5+ unless 4441).

I play the former personally, but that doesn't answer your question.
I believe 3352 hands are opened 1♦ in the unbalanced camp (over which 1NT over 1M shows this general shape), but maybe I'm not the best person to answer that.

i understand that with 5C4D, most open 1D intending to rebid 2C (assuming you hand is not suitable to rebid 2C, nor strong enough to reverse)


you said that with 5332 diamonds you open 1D and over 1M you rebid 1NT to show that

but what if you are, say

1453
you open 1D, partner responds 1S?
don't you rebid 1NT too?
or you rebid 2D?

yes, 1NT. The 1NT rebid basically shows a (semi)balanced hand. If partner is 5-4 in the majors, he'll show them so you don't have to worry about missing a major fit. If partner rebids a 5 card spade suit expecting at least 2, c'est la vie.

[paulg]

raist, on Nov 24 2009, 02:42 AM, said:

manudude03, on Nov 23 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

There are 2 ways of playing prepared club: 1♦ is often balanced, or its always unbalanced (5+ unless 4441).

I play the former personally, but that doesn't answer your question.
I believe 3352 hands are opened 1♦ in the unbalanced camp (over which 1NT over 1M shows this general shape), but maybe I'm not the best person to answer that.

i understand that with 5C4D, most open 1D intending to rebid 2C (assuming you hand is not suitable to rebid 2C, nor strong enough to reverse)

I think 'most' is an exaggeration. This style is certainly more popular in some countries but perhaps 'some' would be more accurate - in the UK, for example, I think it is uncommon.

[Bende]

raist, on Nov 24 2009, 04:42 AM, said:

manudude03, on Nov 23 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

There are 2 ways of playing prepared club: 1♦ is often balanced, or its always unbalanced (5+ unless 4441).

I play the former personally, but that doesn't answer your question.
I believe 3352 hands are opened 1♦ in the unbalanced camp (over which 1NT over 1M shows this general shape), but maybe I'm not the best person to answer that.

i understand that with 5C4D, most open 1D intending to rebid 2C (assuming you hand is not suitable to rebid 2C, nor strong enough to reverse)


you said that with 5332 diamonds you open 1D and over 1M you rebid 1NT to show that

but what if you are, say

1453
you open 1D, partner responds 1S?
don't you rebid 1NT too?
or you rebid 2D?

It has become more common among skilled pairs in Sweden to play 5542 with all balanced hands outside the NT range in 1♣. The way it is most often played:

* 5♦332 is opened 1♣ (but 5M332 is opened 1M)
* xx45 is opened 1♣
* After 1♦-1M transfers are used, so openers rebid of 1NT shows clubs
* With 1453 after 1♦-1♠ opener can rebid 2♦ to show 4♥-5+♦ and minimum

[paulg]

I too play this style where 3=3=5=2 hands are opened 1♣.

I do not see a lot of point of doing this unless you take advantage of the fact that the 1♦ opener is unbalanced. In our system this means that a 1NT rebid is artificial, showing either a limited hand with 5+♦ and 4+♣ or any hand that wants to play in game opposite 8 points (Gazilli).

1♦-1M-2♣ shows 6+ diamonds and 1♦-1♠-2♦ shows 5+ diamonds and 4+ hearts (including the 1453 hand).

There is also the advantage that you cannot hold a 2NT rebid, so 1♦-1M-2NT can be used to show the Bridge World Death Hand, a strong hand with either 4-card support or 3-card support with a 6-card diamond suit.

So I think this method does have a lot of advantages, but it takes a lot of work to benefit from it.

ulven also wrote an article in this month's Bridge World extolling the virtues of opening all 5332 hands with 1♣, even with a 5-card major.

Cheers

Paul

[helene_t]

Why is it called "prepared"? In the Netherlands, some people use the expression "prepared for spades" (if 1♥ can be 4) or "prepared for either major" (if they play 5cM). To me it sounds as if having a 4-card major is a criterion for opening 1♣, i.e. maybe
3343 = open 1♦, but
4243 = open 1♣
or
3334 = open 1♦, but
4234 = open 1♣

I found the term "nebulous" or "short", or "2+" clearer. Those terms are vague but at least it's quite obvious that they are vague. The term "prepared club" sounds to me as if it is the name of a specific system or style, but I don't think it is.

[P_Marlowe]

raist, on Nov 23 2009, 09:30 PM, said:

I just have a simple question about how people play prepared club
as i understand it, all balanced hands which do not fall into your opening NT range are opened 1C

so 1D openings are usually 4+ unbalanced

my question is

5332 hands with 5 diamonds open 1C or 1D?

What ever you understand under "prepared club":

Fairly standard in NA is, to open 1D with 44 in the minors, and this means,
that 1D is usually 4+, unless you happen to have 44 in the majors and 3
diamonds, 2 clubs.

If you require, that 1D gurantees 4 diamonds, than you still can be bal., in
case you have 4 diamonds and a 4 card major, but the numbers of bal. hand
to oen 1D is still significant.

I am not good in percentages, but it may well be, that the number of hands,
which will open 1D are unbal. more than 50% of the time.

This is all still basically SA or 2/1.

But If you start to open 5332 hands with 1C, than you are moving to some
nonstandard system.
The advantage could be, that you plike to play Transfer Walsh, and want to
increase the frequency of 1C openings, no idea how good Transfer Walsh
works with the assumption, that all bal. hand with ta most 14HCP open 1C.

If you do this, you are fairly close to a Polish Club structure, and I would
suggest to have a look at Polish club, since this is a fairly well documented
standard system, and not some home brewed system.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[kenrexford]

I have been playing an unbalanced 1♦ opening since about 1987, which probably gives me some authority to speak on the subject, at least from my perspective.

In the approach I use, 1♦ guarantees a stiff or a void somewhere. There are two exceptions. First, in 3rd or 4th seat, 1♦ could just be a garbage lead-director opening. Second, some people MIGHT opt to violate with 6322/7222 (the "stiff unless rebid my suit" group). I don't particularly like the second exception, but I play that with some people. Even then, a 1♣ opening is allowed.

1♣, then, could easily be bid with 3352. In fact, 3226 or 2227 is possible.

If this seems weird, would you open 1NT with 3226 and a 15-17 hand? Probably. (Maybe 14-16 before adjustments, but you understand that.) Same principle.

Now, I also play that with some people a 2♦ rebid by Opener in competition is not a reverse in many sequences. For example, 1♣-1♠-X-2♦. Opener is just bidding diamonds. He is likely 2236 or so, with no spade stopper.

The benefit to always showing a stiff (and even for the "unless rebid" crowd) is that a lot of nuances develop in 1♦ sequences. A few examples (using a fairly natural approach):

1. 1♦-P-1♠-P-1NT. Opener has a stiff spade and is probably 1-4-4-4 or 1-4-5-3 shape. Hence, Opener almost guarantees a four-card heart suit. Opener might "violate" with terrible clubs and really good hearts (playable in a Moysian if partner relies too heavily on the inference).

2. 1♦-P-1♥-P-1NT. Opener almost assuredly has 3154 shape. With a sixth diamond or fifth club or fourth spade, a different call would have been made. Again, though, discretion is technically allowed.

3. Same as the two above for 2NT rebids, just stronger. Notice how nice this is in one respect. 1♦-P-1♥-P-2NT. Opener has avoided a difficult decision between a heavy 2♣ and an aggressive 3♣.

4. Responder's rebid in a suit shown to be a stiff shows a great suit. 1♦-P-1♥-P-1NT-P-2/3/4♥ = I can play opposite a stiff.

5. Stiff known on raise. 1♦-P-1♠-P-2♠-P-2NT (where's the stiff, and how strong?) 1♦-P-1♥-P-2♥-P-2♠ (same question)

6. Stiff known on raise, Part II. Opener is known to have a stiff. Those points need not be advertised. Consider a "normal" 1♦-P-1♥-P-2♥ sequence. If Opener opens 1♦ with a 4333 12-count, then the "range" is about 12 to 16 or so. Minimum opening to invitational. If 1♦ already promises a stiff, then the range goes from about 11HCP+3(stiff/fit)=14 as a minimum to maybe 17 for a maximum (14HCP + stiff), or maybe even a "bad 18." The functional range is tighter and stronger. Thus, you actually can stop lower on occasion. And, the ugrade for a stiff "somewhere" to merit a 3-level raise is replaced by a 2-level power raise, and hence room to explore the location of the stiff.

Against all of this is the fact that 1♣, if balanced, is nebulous. 1♣ becomes a two-way bid, either (a.) balanced with 11-14 or 18-19, or (b.) unbalanced with 4+ clubs. You milk the downside (not knowing that Opener has clubs) for its benefits (the opponents also not knowing about the minors) to regain some of the loss when you can, and you also stir up some unexpected problems for the defense (4-4-1-4 would have made for an easy takeout double had you just opened your 3-2-2-6 hand 1♦, but now what? Also, play Michaels or give up and have a natural 2♣?).

[Free]

Ken, a couple of questions:
- can your 1D opening have longer C?
- does for example 1D-1S-2C guarantee 2 or 3 Spades?
- what about 1D-1M-2D?
- do you play 1D-1S-2H as reverse?

[kenrexford]

Free, on Nov 25 2009, 07:22 AM, said:

Ken, a couple of questions:
- can your 1D opening have longer C?
- does for example 1D-1S-2C guarantee 2 or 3 Spades?
- what about 1D-1M-2D?
- do you play 1D-1S-2H as reverse?

1. Depends on the person. If 2♦ openings show 14-16 HCP and both minors, then yes. That allows the 1♦...2♣ sequence to be more limited (10-13), such that Responder can pass wisely and avoid that "courtesy correction" problem. Without that tool, no. Open clubs with that shape.

2. No. Could be 1-2-5-5 easily.

3. No. Could be 1-3-6-3

4. Yes. Consider why. 1♦-P-1♠-P-1NT almost guarantees hearts anyway. So, no need to bid the hearts unless you have extras.