[el mister]

Scoring: MPs

1♠, P, P, 3♣
P, 3♦, P, 4♦
All pass

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We defended this hand recently, playing Acol - opps ended up in an unsatisfactory contract. In the ensuing discussion I said I would have started south's hand with a double - everyone disagreed on the basis that the hearts were far too weak to come in over 1♠ with a X.

What's the score? I had thought that 18 hcp permits an off-shape double, you can then describe your hand later. Also, what strength does the 3♣ bid in the pass-out seat show? Thanks.

[bill1157]

3♣ is absolutely correct. X is terrible with a stiff heart and rarely works out. North should carry on to game in ♦'s.

Bill

[gwnn]

way too strong for 3♣ which shows about 13-15 with a good suit. I bid 3NT because it seems to be the best contract usually. Admittedly 3NT is an overbid though. You could also double but the singleton unbid major is bad, and you should look for an alternative if you can find one.

[phil_20686]

I think this is somewhat a matter of style here. I am really not sure what is standard here regarding the 3c bid. I think that 2c and 3c between them should be able to cater for this hand. My own feeling is that I would bid 2c with hands in the 10-15 or 16 range, and bid 3c with stronger hands than that. So i think 3c was fine. Given that, its definately wrong for north to pass 4d. I would be closer to bidding slam with that north hand than passing. Perhaps a 4h cue over 4d is about right if you think that partner is showing a strong hand. Despite the club void, partner is quite likely to be entry rich so the clubs could still provde tricks for slam. Ruffing of hearts is also possible.

3-1-3-6 or 2-1-4-6 are probably the most likely hand shapes after 3c and 4d, so the heart ace is a huge card. Ax x ATxx AKxxxx and slam is a virtual laydown opposite a hand not good enough to bid 3c.

Jump shifts in the pass out seat are often a weak spot in partnership discussion, so these kind of misunderstandings are not uncommon at club level.

[Codo]

I thought standard is the way Czaba said: 3 Club shows 13-15 and a good suit. So yes, double is right.


Of course if both partners agree that 3 club shows this hand, this is fine for them too. But in that case there is no way North can pass souths 4 diamond bid.

[pooltuna]

Codo, on Nov 20 2009, 09:24 AM, said:

I thought standard is the way Czaba said: 3 Club shows 13-15 and a good suit. So yes, double is right.


Of course if both partners agree that 3 club shows this hand, this is fine for them too. But in that case there is no way North can pass souths 4 diamond bid.

you get my vote Roland

[aguahombre]

balancing JS should (after adding the imaginary King) look like a hand which would open ONE and rebid 3 of same suit. This is just another way of agreeing with CODO that this hand is way too strong for 3C.

[helene_t]

Double with the South hand is normal. 3NT is ok. BTW did South think 4♦ was forcing? Not sure what is standard. Maybe 3♦ should already be a game force, actually I think I would like to play that, but haven't discussed it with anyone.

[ONEferBRID]

Ditto Codo... the Double-then-bid-suit( or NT with a different strong hand) shows this hand. The "strong DBL" does not guarantee Hts, and passed-partner should not hang his/her partner.

[aguahombre]

ONEferBRID, on Nov 20 2009, 10:05 AM, said:

passed-partner should not hang his/her partner.

Partner who passed 1S could have a very nice hand which is unsuitable for a double and just shy of 1NT O/C. but, after he subtracts a King, he will not be able to hang the balancing doubler. It is a built-in safeguard against your concern.