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Would you go 2 over 1 F.G. with this? Evaluation strikes again...

Poll: Would you bid 2 Clubs with this hand: (49 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you bid 2 Clubs with this hand:

  1. Yes (19 votes [38.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.78%

  2. No (26 votes [53.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.06%

  3. Depends on the vulnerability (2 votes [4.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

  4. Something else (2 votes [4.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

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#1 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 07:14

You get:

♠Kx
♥KQxx
♦Jxx
♣Kxxx

Your partner opens 1♠ after the dealer passes, what's your bid?

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#2 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 07:16

12+12 is GF...
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#3 User is offline   mohitz 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 07:18

All day long!
All your ace are belong to us!
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#4 User is offline   mikegill 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 07:20

I'm sure that at MPs or white IMPs I would just bid 1N. At red IMPs, I'm not sure I could bring myself to only invite game, but I would certainly want to.
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#5 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 07:39

Hmmm, flat, bad spots ... for me depends on partner's style. If he typically opens bad 11 counts, I will bid 1NT then invite. He will probably think of a decent 13 as a max and accept. And if he has that 11 count, we end up right where we belong.
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#6 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 07:48

All day long. If partner has a hand with just 11, he will have no crap, so we may still have play in game.
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#7 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 08:00

Codo, on Nov 19 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

All day long. If partner has a hand with just 11, he will have no crap, so we may still have play in game.

Exactly! If you have that partner, bid 2♣. But if you have the partner that frequently does have crap ...
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#8 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 08:01

No reason to GF, IMO.

Suppose I bid 1NT, forcing. If partner rebids 2NT or higher, no problem. If partner rebids 2♠ or 2♥, I could decide to GF now. If partner bids 2♦ or 2♣, I could choose to bid 3NT. But, if partner passes 1NT, he decided right.
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#9 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 08:33

25 Zars, no known fit. I would not 2/1 GF with this one with my normal partners who tend to open light. I would make a 2/1 with my mother who will have a solid opener if she opens, and with other partners who do the same.
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Posted 2009-November-19, 08:44

Slightly depends on partner's style of openings. Generally I wouldn't GF as this hand is aceless with a stray jack. If my hand was Kxx KQxx Jx Kxxx then I would as we have a known fit. I'll start off with 1NT and I'm still allowed to re-evaluate depending on partner's rebid.
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#11 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 08:47

billw55, on Nov 19 2009, 09:00 AM, said:

Codo, on Nov 19 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

All day long. If partner has a hand with just 11, he will have no crap, so we may still have play in game.

Exactly! If you have that partner, bid 2♣. But if you have the partner that frequently does have crap ...

The partner with the crap rebids 2♠ over 2♣ and passes your 2NT call
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#12 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 09:03

Agree with Ken.

Help!
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#13 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 09:04

Not 2C but 2D. Next 2N >2S looks just right.
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#14 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 09:11

Disagree with Ken. 1NT followed by 3NT should be reserved for hands that upgrade due to opener's rebid, or are too quacky to give p the impression of hiving the slam potential that usually goes with GF hands.

This depends on partner's opening style, I suppose with an unknown p I would GF.
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#15 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 09:23

kenrexford, on Nov 19 2009, 09:01 AM, said:

No reason to GF, IMO.

Suppose I bid 1NT, forcing.  If partner rebids 2NT or higher, no problem.  If partner rebids 2♠ or 2♥, I could decide to GF now.  If partner bids 2♦ or 2♣, I could choose to bid 3NT.  But, if partner passes 1NT, he decided right.

The OP suggested that 2/1 is gf...that method ALWAYS (to my knowledge) means that 1N is F1. Therefore opener will never pass 1N unless he has psyched.

Having said that, I agree with Gnasher's post (all of it)

Helene: arguing that 1N 3N should be reserved for hands that have upgraded is not, imo, accurate. Another reason for 1N then 3N is to warn partner, who may be looking at a hand just under jumpshift values, NOT to get excited, as he surely would were we to gf immediately. Thus I (and others) will sometimes respond 1N or make a limit bergen raise on hands where we, as responder, are always intending to bid game but don't want partner to become too aggressive on good hands. These hands are usually very 'soft', as is the one under consideration.
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#16 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 09:29

I think it is very common to play 2/1 gameforcing and 1NT not forcing.

I also agree with the onenotrumpers, though less comfortably so red at IMPs.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#17 User is offline   miguelm 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 10:06

Everything Mikeh wrote :)
It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents.
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#18 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 10:25

1NT!!! I saw it started off nearly unanimous for a game force and nearly puked in my mouth.
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#19 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 10:27

pooltuna, on Nov 19 2009, 09:47 AM, said:

billw55, on Nov 19 2009, 09:00 AM, said:

Codo, on Nov 19 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

All day long. If partner has a hand with just 11, he will have no crap, so we may still have play in game.

Exactly! If you have that partner, bid 2♣. But if you have the partner that frequently does have crap ...

The partner with the crap rebids 2♠ over 2♣ and passes your 2NT call

Well if 2♣ is game forcing that's not really an option ;)
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#20 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-November-19, 10:54

jdonn, on Nov 19 2009, 11:25 AM, said:

1NT!!! I saw it started off nearly unanimous for a game force and nearly puked in my mouth.

Josh you should know by now being an underbidder on the forums is a fate worse than death. Underbidders must where a scarlet "U" on their foreheads. Mine is permanently stained.

1N is very easy. In many continuations I will GF this. In others I will simply invite.

When is a balanced, aceless 12 ever a game force?

When the "an opening bid facing an opening bid produces game" theorem was introduced, people were passing these hands.

Quote

...puked in my mouth


Prilosec helps with this.
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