[Chamaco]

Hi all,
I have such a basic question on 1NT forcing I am almost ashamed to ask )

I have further questions on the followup by responder, but first I need to know the standard meaning of this sequence

-------------------------------------

1♠:1NT (forc.)
2♦:2♥

What should I expect by responder ?

Hand 1)
♠x♥AQTxxx♦xxx♣xxx
a hand that wants to be passed out

Hand 2)
♠xx♥AQTxx♦KJx♣xxx
An invitational hand
--------------------------------------

[hrothgar]

Hand 1 looks about right. Responder could very well hold a weaker Heart suit.

Holding hand 2, responder should (probably) start with 1NT and then rebid 2NT, inviting 3N.

[PriorKnowledge]

1) 2H
2) 3H

Most play the jump to 3H is invitational 6h. Don't bypass a 6 card major to invite NT.

[hrothgar]

PriorKnowledge wrote

>2) 3H

I is confused here...

Partner opened 1♠.

You hold ♠xx♥AQTxx♦KJx♣xxx

Are you seriously suggesting bidding 3♥ with this hand???

[PriorKnowledge]

Oops, thought both hands had 6h. Now 2N looks right. 2H is not bad either.

[1eyedjack]

One of the reasons why I don't play 2/1 GF but do play FNT.
On hand 1 I can bid FNT followed by 2H.
On hand 2 I can respond 2H.
Works best (I think) with a weak 1N opening structure. Responder promises invite with 2H response, and if opener rebids beyond 2S (including 2N) he shows extra values and you are then in GF situation.

[Trpltrbl]

2♥ shows weak hand with long ♥.
Something like hand 1, could even be weaker then that.

Mike

[mikestar]

1eyedjack, on Jun 28 2004, 05:54 PM, said:

One of the reasons why I don't play 2/1 GF but do play FNT.
On hand 1 I can bid FNT followed by 2H.
On hand 2 I can respond 2H. ...

I know quite a few pairs that play 2/1 GF only in 1M-2m sequences, with 1S-2H and 1D-2C only gurnteeing invitational values.

[Trpltrbl]

I only play 1♦- 2♣ as 10+ all other are GF.

Mike

[luke warm]

hrothgar, on Jun 28 2004, 05:14 PM, said:

Hand 1 looks about right. Responder could very well hold a weaker Heart suit.

Holding hand 2, responder should (probably) start with 1NT and then rebid 2NT, inviting 3N.

that looks exactly right to me

[Chamaco]

Thanks all for the contributions so far !

Here is the second part of the question.

1♠:1NT (forc.)
2♦:?

What should one bid as responder with the following hand ?

♠xx♥AQTxxx♦x♣xxxx

1) a 2♠ preference ?

2) or 2♥ ? (This second option is strictly dependent on the meaning of 2♥, if it does deny a good hand and only shows a decent long suit).
Assume this is the right bid.
Is opener supposed to pass holding:
♠AKxxx♥ void♦AJTxx♣Jxx ?

In the actual hand that occurred, opener and responder held somthing similar to these 2 hands

♠xx♥AQTxxx♦x♣xxxx
♠AKxxx♥ void♦AJTxx♣Jxx.

and bidding went:
1♠:1NT (forc.)
2♦:2♥
3♦:3♠ all pass

[Free]

I'm not sure, but I think a 2♦ rebid is wrong with AKxxx--AQxxx-Qxx. Don't you feel strong enough for an immediate 3♦? This however doesn't solve anything I think opener should pass, but temptation is quite big with such hand, since you only showed a 3+ card ♦ and minimum opener...

[Chamaco]

Free, on Jul 1 2004, 11:30 AM, said:

I'm not sure, but I think a 2♦ rebid is wrong with AKxxx--AQxxx-Qxx.  Don't you feel strong enough for an immediate 3♦?  This however doesn't solve anything    I think opener should pass, but temptation is quite big with such hand, since you only showed a 3+ card ♦ and minimum opener...

Free, you are right about the 3♦ rebid.
this was a late night post, and I just made a bblunder.

opener's hand was not a reverse hand, let's say more similar to
♠AKxxx♥ void♦AJTxx♣Jxx.

Now I will correct the post to this hand-type, so that the meaning of the question remains.

[flytoox]

Chamaco, on Jul 1 2004, 11:42 AM, said:

Free, on Jul 1 2004, 11:30 AM, said:

I'm not sure, but I think a 2♦ rebid is wrong with AKxxx--AQxxx-Qxx.  Don't you feel strong enough for an immediate 3♦?  This however doesn't solve anything     I think opener should pass, but temptation is quite big with such hand, since you only showed a 3+ card ♦ and minimum opener...

Free, you are right about the 3♦ rebid.
this was a late night post, and I just made a bblunder.

opener's hand was not a reverse hand, let's say more similar to
♠AKxxx♥ void♦AJTxx♣Jxx.

Now I will correct the post to this hand-type, so that the meaning of the question remains.

well, i think 3d rebid is wrong, shape without fit yet wont play well. 2d rebid is correct. 3D establishs gf.


hongjun

[Free]

with the adjustments, 2♦ is a correct bid, and opener should pass imo. When the Jacks are Queens, then you might consider this as GF, but it's on the border...

[Chamaco]

Free, on Jul 1 2004, 02:01 PM, said:

with the adjustments, 2♦ is a correct bid, and opener should pass imo.

1) you mean that opener should pass responder's 2♥ ?

2) you mean that any opener's rebid over 2♠ (major suit rebid) is a Game Force ?

Thanks !!

[Free]

1) yes, after 2♥ opener should pass. this is signoff.

2) usually yes, any rebid above 2M from opener after a 1NT forcing bid is strong, and should establish a GF, or at least forcing to 4X if I remember correct.

[sceptic]

Quote

1♠:1NT (forc.)
2♦:?

What should one bid as responder with the following hand ?

♠xx♥AQTxxx♦x♣xxxx

I have onlyy been playing 2/1 for 4 weeks so don't laugh at me. BUT I think 2 hearts is the correct call for responder. the hearts are a nice suit and you have already limited your hand, so your p wont raise he will just pass and do the right thing and I am sure if your p passes you will come out of it smelling of roses

[flytoox]

Free, on Jul 1 2004, 02:21 PM, said:

1) yes, after 2♥ opener should pass. this is signoff.

2) usually yes, any rebid above 2M from opener after a 1NT forcing bid is strong, and should establish a GF, or at least forcing to 4X if I remember correct.

2h only suggest to play, u can remove to 2s if ur void.

any rebid above 2M is not strong, at most invitational. if pd bid 3m, it usually suggest to play there. if pd bid 3M, then it is invitational, but passable. for example,

1s 1n
2d/c 3h
?
this is passable.

[flytoox]

Chamaco, on Jul 1 2004, 02:12 PM, said:

Free, on Jul 1 2004, 02:01 PM, said:

with the adjustments, 2♦ is a correct bid, and opener should pass imo.

1) you mean that opener should pass responder's 2♥ ?

2) you mean that any opener's rebid over 2♠ (major suit rebid) is a Game Force ?

Thanks !!

Hi, Chamaco, if u r talking about 1N forcin in 2/1 framework. I suggest u read better bidding with bergen, uncontested auction. He has discussed this quite throughly.

Ben may give u many good suggestion on this topic.

Hongjun