[MickyB]

Jlall, on Nov 13 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

So 2H is often a five card suit anyways, so you don't gain very much by being able to pass it.

It feels pretty desirable to be able to pass on a weakish 2-6 rather than push a level higher in search of an 8th trump. I'd much sooner play opener's 2NT rebid as forcing, on the basis that responder can either rebid his suit or have a shot at game.

Quote

Anyways I've definitely learned that 2H forcing is not universal.

And I've learned that 2H non-forcing is not universal.

[Jlall]

MickyB, on Nov 13 2009, 06:05 PM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 13 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

So 2H is often a five card suit anyways, so you don't gain very much by being able to pass it.

It feels pretty desirable to be able to pass on a weakish 2-6 rather than push a level higher in search of an 8th trump.

Yeah fair point. Still not worth it imo, you are aiming at too small of a target for me, opener has to be minimum, responder has to be minimum, reponder has to be 2-6 to want to pass probably, all so you can get to 2H instead of 3D on those hands.

Maybe this has something to do with my style to bid 2D, I would not usually bid it with a 10 count and five diamonds, usually preferring to bid either 1N (spade stopper) or X (no spade stopper). So something like a 3253 10 count is not likely, unless it's something like xxx Kx AKTxx xxx. I also wouldn't have both minors less than GF because I would just start with X then invite later with that, since 2D then 3C is forcing.

[Echognome]

Not much to add other than the fact that several experts disagree, makes this a clear non wtp for a BIL discussion!

[jdonn]

Yes I learned this was not a wtp at all. Also he is right it has to do with style, I would sooner bid my 5 card suit on a 3253 10 count instead of doubling unless the suit is bad. But I wouldn't want to do that if I couldn't pass 2♥.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

3H.

2H is out, since most would play 2H as NF.
2S is a typical torture bid, it is forcing, but tells p nothing.
3C showes a 4 card suit, I have how many?
4H is at least our most likely game, but since p is unlimited
and 4H burn a lot of space, why 4H, when I can still bid 4H
next round?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

FWIW

Lawrence says 2h rebid is passable and 2h rebid does not promise 6h, he prefers responder only raise with 3h.

He goes on:

"Since responder can make light two over one responses after an overcall, opener will have to make strong rebids when he has extra values. Responder doesn't guarantee a rebid so if opener wishes to get to game, he has to make a strong rebid."

FWIW2 This is from an older 1992 book Contested Auctions p.19.

[jjbrr]

jdonn, on Nov 13 2009, 05:51 PM, said:

So does that mean Fred says I'm wrong but counts in my favor in the poll anyway because he plays it that way?

Btw what is Fournier doing in the poll?! (I love you!)

Also if we consider you've got me on this one, this is the third time not the second. Remember 1♣ P 1♠ 3♦ P P 3♥?

Jdonn: Easy explanation here

Spoiler: (Hidden)

Spoiler

Fournier is the little circle, but a circle nonetheless!

[fred]

Jlall, on Nov 13 2009, 11:08 PM, said:

Maybe this has something to do with my style to bid 2D, I would not usually bid it with a 10 count and five diamonds, usually preferring to bid either 1N (spade stopper) or X (no spade stopper). So something like a 3253 10 count is not likely, unless it's something like xxx Kx AKTxx xxx. I also wouldn't have both minors less than GF because I would just start with X then invite later with that, since 2D then 3C is forcing.

Agree - style with respect to when you bid 2D is relevant to what happens next.

One advantage of playing what Kokish (derisively) calls "go as you please" (ie 2D doesn't promise a rebid in the cases that Josh describes) is that it allows for lighter 2D bids (and hence less weight on the negative double).

My regular partner really likes to get his suits in on marginal hands after an opponent's overcall. This is the main reason why we play "go as you please".

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[Phil]

This is the funniest thread we've had in the last few months. WD.

[aguahombre]

Being a total imbecile, I always thought that if a free bid at the 2 level did not promise one more bid at the three level it was Alertable.

Shows what I don't know.

[Winstonm]

I've always played this sequence the same way I attacked SAYC - a 2/1 by responder was forcing to a minimum of 2N.

[Winstonm]

Btw, I would rebid 4H - I don't think it is good enough for 3H.

[mike777]

Sidenote

I do think there is a difference between NFB and Lawrence style.


IN NFB you expect responder to rebid pass very often, in Lawrence style you expect 2/1 responder to not pass often.

[cherdanno]

Bob Hamman quickly replies to text messages? Can I have his...oh wait, now I know why the ACBL banned cell phones!

[Jlall]

cherdanno, on Nov 14 2009, 10:11 AM, said:

Bob Hamman quickly replies to text messages? Can I have his...oh wait, now I know why the ACBL banned cell phones!

lol the plot thickens.... Petra emailed me saying bob and zia play it as NF, but that F is standard...

[jdonn]

Lol this is funny to me. I would have guessed if anything that NF is standard but maybe some experts play it as forcing. It's starting to sound like it's exactly the other way around.

[helene_t]

Jlall, on Nov 13 2009, 10:47 PM, said:

I also feel like I'm in bizzaro world because I've never heard of anyone playing 2H here as NF.

In Lawrence's 2/1 Workbook (or was it the quizes? Maybe both) it is NF.

[vuroth]

Hey I recognize this hand!

[wyman]

To add to Justin's poll, Steve Weinstein says he plays here that 2H, 2N, and 3D are all NF.

As KFay just said to me,
"well i guess that's an auction that just needs to be discussed with everyone you play with
i will have to add it to my list
for sure "

Thanks for the input.