[DRWTAHOE]

[B] FOR THOSE WHO HAVE ADOPTED TO A 2/1 STYLE.
IT IS ALL WELL AND GOOD OPENING A MAJOR TO THEN USE YOUR 2/1 BID. EVEN WHEN YOU OPEN 1 DIAMOND AND YOU HAVE NO CALL UP THE LINE OF YOUR MAJORS AND YOU HAVE NO CALL TO USE INVERTED MINOR.2-3-2-6 OR 3-3-3-4, BUT YOU DO HAVE A 2 CLUB BID. (GF). NOW LETS MOVE ON TO YOUR PARTNER OPENING 1 CLUB. IS THERE A 2/1 BID FOR THAT? SO HOW CAN YOU TELL PARTNER IN YOUR FIRST RESPONSE WHAT KIND OF HAND YOU MAY HAVE? ONE SEGMANT OF BRIDGE PLAYERS WILL JUST USE A "STANDARD" APPROACH TO THIS 1 CLUB OPENER AND THAT'S BIDDING UP THE LINE. ANOTHER GROUP OF BRIDGE PLAYER'S SAY "IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO DEFINING MY HAND?" AND THEY WILL BY-PASS THE BID OF A 4/5 DIAMONDS SUIT AND BID THEIR 4 CARD MAJOR WITH A POOR HAND. MINIMUM 6 POINTS OR SO. THE KEY IS THIS FIRST RESPONSE. SO I SAID "POOR HAND." NOW WHAT IF A STRONG HAND SUCH AS GAME FORCE AND EVEN WITH SLAM IDEAS? SO THEN COMES THE EXCEPTION AND THAT IS TO BID ONE DIAMOND. YOU MAY HAVE LONG DIAMONDS OR SHOR DIAMONDS. I WILL LEAVE YOU WITH THIS TO PONDER ON. THERE IS MORE TO COME AS WITH ANY CONVENTION. YOUR EITHER A STANDARD BIDDER OR YOU’RE A MODEREN BIDDER. YOU MAKE THE CHOICE.

[mtvesuvius]

I am a bidder with my caps lock off.

[Elianna]

I agree with Adam.

I'd like to add that I'm curious as to who is your intended audience? Are you trying to start a conversation or intending to lecture someone?

[jjbrr]

new cayuga?

[gwnn]

Quote

[b] for those who have adopted to a 2/1 style.
it is all well and good opening a major to then use your 2/1 bid. even when you open 1 diamond and you have no call up the line of your majors and you have no call to use inverted minor.2-3-2-6 or 3-3-3-4, but you do have a 2 club bid. (gf). now lets move on to your partner opening 1 club. is there a 2/1 bid for that? so how can you tell partner in your first response what kind of hand you may have? one segmant of bridge players will just use a "standard" approach to this 1 club opener and that's bidding up the line. another group of bridge player's say "is there a better way to defining my hand?" and they will by-pass the bid of a 4/5 diamonds suit and bid their 4 card major with a poor hand. minimum 6 points or so. the key is this first response. so i said "poor hand." now what if a strong hand such as game force and even with slam ideas? so then comes the exception and that is to bid one diamond. you may have long diamonds or shor diamonds. i will leave you with this to ponder on. there is more to come as with any convention. your either a standard bidder or you’re a moderen bidder. you make the choice.

caps removed (in case someone wants to read it...)

[CarlRitner]

That's not Walsh as I learned it from Marty Bergen. You don't bid diamonds unless you have diamonds.

[kfay]

Carl, on Sep 11 2009, 02:48 PM, said:

That's not Walsh as I learned it from Marty Bergen. You don't bid diamonds unless you have diamonds.

correct

also. generally when i have a game forcing hand and partner bids 1m it doesn't bother me that i can't say GAME FORCE!!~!!!!!! right away since i can just show that eventually no problem. if i bid diamonds without diamonds and the opps preempt... partner might get us into serious trouble.

[CarlRitner]

The whole gist of Walsh is to bypass diamonds and show your 4-card major if you are
only strong enough for one bid (i.e. not invitational).

If you are invitational or better, you bid normally, up the line. There's no problem
showing a 5-card diamond suit since you're prepared to reverse into your major, thus
showing shape and strength.

If you do respond 1♦, opener can bypass a 4-card major, knowing you'll show one
on the rebid, if you have one. So,

1♣ - 1♦ - 1NT may hide 4-card majors in either or both hands.

[kenrexford]

Actually, you can play a 2/1 GF style after a 1♣ opening. Because there is so much space after a 1♣ opening, I like an artificial 2♣ showing either invitational with clubs (and no four-card major) or any other GF hand that does not have a 5-card major (but may have one or both 4-card majors), a modified Golady.

I point that out simply because refuting the capper on the premise sounded fun.

[aguahombre]

jjbrr, on Sep 11 2009, 02:39 PM, said:

new cayuga?

that's my vote. or a clone of same.

[pooltuna]

aguahombre, on Sep 11 2009, 06:46 PM, said:

jjbrr, on Sep 11 2009, 02:39 PM, said:

new cayuga?

that's my vote. or a clone of same.

I take it cayuga was a BBF poster and not a canoe?

[aguahombre]

pooltuna, on Sep 11 2009, 07:09 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Sep 11 2009, 06:46 PM, said:

jjbrr, on Sep 11 2009, 02:39 PM, said:

new cayuga?

that's my vote. or a clone of same.

I take it cayuga was a BBF poster and not a canoe?

yep...search for 'cayugaguy" and for "pformaini". they were one and the same

[Infidel]

I am away from home and my bridge books, but my memory of Bergen's Walsh treatment (in BBB1) is that the reverse into a Major after 1c-1d-1N guaranteed game-forcing strength, not invitational-plus. So that diamonds were bypassed in favor of the 4-card Major with any lesser hand, not just those "worth only one bid."

Am I misremembering? Or was there a subsequent change/clarification?

[aguahombre]

Infidel, on Sep 11 2009, 10:07 PM, said:

I am away from home and my bridge books, but my memory of Bergen's Walsh treatment (in BBB1) is that the reverse into a Major after 1c-1d-1N guaranteed game-forcing strength, not invitational-plus. So that diamonds were bypassed in favor of the 4-card Major with any lesser hand, not just those "worth only one bid."

Am I misremembering? Or was there a subsequent change/clarification?

u are not wrong...that is what 2/1 is all about--bidding suits in natural length order is gf if second suit is higher than 1st suit. makes nice, slow gf auctions.

[dicklont]

I have a problem with Walsh.
With a weak hand you bid the major first, but when you find a fit in that major the strong hand will become dummy.
Now how's that a good thing?

[H_KARLUK]

gwnn, on Sep 11 2009, 03:40 PM, said:

Quote

[b] for those who have adopted to a 2/1 style.
it is all well and good opening a major to then use your 2/1 bid. even when you open 1 diamond and you have no call up the line of your majors and you have no call to use inverted minor.2-3-2-6 or 3-3-3-4, but you do have a 2 club bid. (gf). now lets move on to your partner opening 1 club. is there a 2/1 bid for that? so how can you tell partner in your first response what kind of hand you may have? one segmant of bridge players will just use a "standard" approach to this 1 club opener and that's bidding up the line. another group of bridge player's say "is there a better way to defining my hand?" and they will by-pass the bid of a 4/5 diamonds suit and bid their 4 card major with a poor hand. minimum 6 points or so. the key is this first response. so i said "poor hand." now what if a strong hand such as game force and even with slam ideas? so then comes the exception and that is to bid one diamond. you may have long diamonds or shor diamonds. i will leave you with this to ponder on. there is more to come as with any convention. your either a standard bidder or you’re a moderen bidder. you make the choice.

caps removed (in case someone wants to read it...)

Someone should stop that kid. Otherwise we may suddenly find our sculptures and granites changed.
Cheez n crackers!

[blackshoe]

It's better than the weaker hand becoming dummy in the wrong strain.

I suppose that's why some play transfer Walsh.

[bid_em_up]

jjbrr, on Sep 11 2009, 02:39 PM, said:

new cayuga?

or shubi

[CarlRitner]

It is "game strength" and not "invitational plus" hands that will first bid legitimate diamonds and then reverse into a 4-card major. I stand corrected.

[gordontd]

Where does Kaplan-Sheinwold (or even kaplan-Sheinwold) come into all this?