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Spade bomb on a misfitting hand

Poll: Bid: (23 member(s) have cast votes)

Bid:

  1. 3S (13 votes [56.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.52%

  2. 4C (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 4S (9 votes [39.13%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.13%

  4. 4NT (1 votes [4.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.35%

  5. 5S (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 6S (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Poky 

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  Posted 2009-June-12, 08:07

♠AKQT9xx
♥Kx
♦x
♣Qxx

1♥ 1♠
3♦ ??

3♦ is invitational (around 15-16) with 5-5

1♥ 2♠ would have been 6♠ 9-11.
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#2 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 08:28

What do you mean invitational? Could I pass 3♦? Could my partner pass 3♥ by me? Could my partner pass 3♠ by me? Explain this a bit please.

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#3 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 08:30

4♠ wtp?
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
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#4 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 09:24

Poky, on Jun 12 2009, 09:07 AM, said:

♠AKQT9xx
♥Kx
♦x
♣Qxx

1♥ 1♠
3♦ ??

3♦ is invitational (around 15-16) with 5-5

1♥ 2♠ would have been 6♠ 9-11.

If jumpshift is invitational, what would be gameforcing? I don't know of anybody else who plays that 3D is only invitational.

Anyway, in your methods, 4S now.
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#5 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 09:38

peachy, on Jun 12 2009, 05:24 PM, said:

I don't know of anybody else who plays that 3D is only invitational.

Then talk to a strong-club player. (Or similar.)
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
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#6 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 09:41

3♠ here is supposed to be forcing...
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#7 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 09:48

jdonn, on Jun 12 2009, 10:41 AM, said:

3♠ here is supposed to be forcing...

Opposite GF jumpshift. Do you think it is best forcing also opposite invitational 3D?
Really, I don't actually need to know since I will never play invit JS, but interested in the argument why it should be forcing.
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#8 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 09:52

peachy, on Jun 12 2009, 10:24 AM, said:

If jumpshift is invitational, what would be gameforcing? I don't know of anybody else who plays that 3D is only invitational.

You get invitational and distributional jumps by opener, typically 5/5+, if you're playing precision or playing Gazilli in standard.

I might wish I was playing weak jump shifts here (1♥-2♠ as weak rather than invitational), since then it would be clear 3♠ is forcing after opener shows a maximum.

Lacking this, I'm glad I have such good spades and don't have too much in terms of extra strength which makes 4♠ acceptable.
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#9 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 10:03

peachy, on Jun 12 2009, 10:48 AM, said:

jdonn, on Jun 12 2009, 10:41 AM, said:

3♠ here is supposed to be forcing...

Opposite GF jumpshift. Do you think it is best forcing also opposite invitational 3D?
Really, I don't actually need to know since I will never play invit JS, but interested in the argument why it should be forcing.

Because you might have this hand. Or a hand where you don't know whether 4♠ or 3NT is best. Those are more important than just wanting to sign off in 3♠. When that is the case you can either play in one of opener's suits or get one level higher, it's probably not a disaster. The game and slam decisions are way more important.

It's similar reasoning to why 1♦ 1♥, 3♦ 3♥ is forcing in standard bidding.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#10 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 10:32

This hand is so much easier if you just respond 2♣ to establish a game force. I mean, you have three clubs! :P (Just kidding.)

Partner has 5-5 and invitational, right? So, he has a decent chance of having a stiff club, but probably has a stiff (or void) spade. However, if he has both Aces in the reds (one is probably sure), then 6♠ looks like a fairly good contract.

Now, I assume that you have some agreement as to follow-up, right?

Well, I'm wanting to know what bids I have available. I cannot imagine agreeing to play invitational jump shifts like this without any discussion of what bids mean after the jump shift.
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#11 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 11:12

We had a discussion about this recently and agreed (at least most of us) that 3♠ is forcing.

So that's what I will bid, not giving up on slam.
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#12 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 11:22

I voted for 3♠, as long as it is forcing. If it isn't 4♠ and a discussion afterwards.

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


My YouTube Channel
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#13 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 18:08

I don't think it's clear that 3♠ should be forcing. It's not the same as 1♦-1♥;3♦, where diamonds are known to be a playable spot. Here you might have QJ10xxx x xx Kxxx and just want to stop somewhere. I agree, though, that a forcing 3♠ would be nice on this hand.

If 3♠ isn't forcing, how about 5♠? We can hardly have three top losers, so the main risk is that we have two aces and a trump to lose. Whilst I hate going off at the five level, I think it's probably worth the risk to try to get to slam opposite x AQxxx Axxxx Kx + wastage.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#14 User is offline   xcurt 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 20:08

I think it's clear 3♠ is forcing. Playing a style where 3-level bids can be just correcting the partscore is hopeless.
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#15 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2009-June-12, 20:17

I like gnasher's 5S try = asking for at least 2nd Rnd Ctrl in the unbid suit ( Cl )
.... either a stiff or K x .
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
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#16 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-June-13, 03:37

Even if we play invitational jump shifts, I still think 3S now being NF is too unplayable. What if you have enough values for game and not great of a trump suit or as well as no club stopper? Sure if we have a weak hand only opposite 15-16, it's not a "big" deal, but if we have game values it's just too risky to get to the wrong strain.
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#17 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-June-13, 03:41

helene_t, on Jun 13 2009, 12:12 AM, said:

We had a discussion about this recently and agreed (at least most of us) that 3♠ is forcing.

So that's what I will bid, not giving up on slam.

No we didn't. That was over a forcing 3D bid. Given the conditions, this is a clear 4S.
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#18 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-June-13, 03:51

ONEferBRID, on Jun 13 2009, 03:17 AM, said:

I like gnasher's 5S try = asking for at least 2nd Rnd Ctrl in the unbid suit ( Cl )
.... either a stiff or K x .

If that's what it means, we risk reaching slam opposite x QJ10xx AKQxx Kx, which would be bad.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#19 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-June-13, 10:50

gnasher, on Jun 13 2009, 04:51 AM, said:

ONEferBRID, on Jun 13 2009, 03:17 AM, said:

I like gnasher's  5S try = asking for at least 2nd Rnd Ctrl in the unbid suit ( Cl )
.... either a stiff or K x .

If that's what it means, we risk reaching slam opposite x QJ10xx AKQxx Kx, which would be bad.

It would be bad even reaching the 5 level opposite that hand a substantial minority of the time.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#20 User is offline   cyc0002002 

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Posted 2009-June-13, 11:15

I play strong 1♣
in my system
3♥ 4♦ are not forcing

3♠ is forcing i vote that
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