[hackenbush]

Scoring: MP

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S N
1♠ 2♦
2NT 3NT

Opponents play Standard American. You lead ♥6, playing 2nd/4th. It goes 7, 2, T. Declarer leads ♦ as you chuck the beer. You win the second diamond, declarer pitching ♠5. Your signals are UDCA with rev smith echo.

What do you make of ♥2? Is Partner's diamond play count or smith? What do you return at trick 4 if partner played high-low in ♦, what if low-high?

[Phil]

I would expect the heart ♥2 is count from a holding like 10-2, but its possible he is laying off the A to prevent a later entry with♥A2.

Partner's diamond is count. He can't know whether or not dummy has an entry. His next diamond is SP. So, with say partner holds ♦543. I would expect the 5-4 to be spades, 4-3 to be clubs and 5-3 to show neither black card or both.

Your diamond is Smith. Its an interesting question whether or not Smith is neutral toward the led suit and positive to another suit, or negative toward the led suit and neutral to other suits. I think in standard Smith (unless its totally obvious), the latter applies but I prefer the former.

[awm]

The primary diamond play should be count. This is a clear count situation (declarer trying to set up long suit in a dummy with possible restricted entries). Partner has already had the chance to signal about hearts at trick one.

However, partner seems to have three diamonds to play. Secondary signal should be suit preference here (again not Smith, partner's failure to win the first heart trick pretty much signals his lack of interest there). I'd read diamonds from highest-middle-lowest as a spade signal and diamonds from highest-lowest-middle as a club signal.

My guess at the heart position is that partner has ♥A2 and wants to make declarer's entry situation more difficult. It seems like declarer has to be 5-3-1-4 on this auction, although I suppose it's possible declarer bypassed a four-card heart suit and has 5-4-1-3.

[kfay]

Phil, on Jun 12 2009, 11:46 AM, said:

I would expect the heart ♥2 is count from a holding like 10-2, but its possible he is laying off the A to prevent a later entry with♥A2.

Partner's diamond is count. He can't know whether or not dummy has an entry. His next diamond is SP. So, with say partner holds ♦543. I would expect the 5-4 to be spades, 4-3 to be clubs and 5-3 to show neither black card or both.

Your diamond is Smith. Its an interesting question whether or not Smith is neutral toward the led suit and positive to another suit, or negative toward the led suit and neutral to other suits. I think in standard Smith (unless its totally obvious), the latter applies but I prefer the former.

No "tick tock smith" plug, Phil?

[hackenbush]

Scoring: MP

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At trick 4, West plays ♠2, 3, 8, 9. Declarer plays ♣2, 4, J, K. East leads ♠6, 7, T, 4. Now West comes back with ♥3. Obviously defense hasn't been great so far, but can East figure out to win ♥A?

[ONEferBRID]

All I know is, if I would have led 4th best to begin with ( ♥ 3 ), partner would have known that South only started with two hearts.

[kenrexford]

IMO:

Partner's heart 2 was a strange play. Your 6 lead could have been from Q1086, in which case playing the Jack would have won the trick. If it was second from garbage, the Jack does not hurt. So, I don't get it. I suppose partner is making damn sure that there is no entry to dummy, in case Declarer had Q103 and your lead was MUD. I suppose that makes sense after all.

Your diamond plays should be Smith, because you have the Ace.

Partner's diamond plays are assuredly count first. So, I would expect high-low. But, once high is played (5), the next card, whichever of the low cards he plays, should be delayed Smith, IMO. Suit Preference is wrong, IMO. So, if he plays 5-4, he has no interest in hearts (interest in a club switch), but 5-3 is interest (or disinterest in a club try). What you do next depends on which low pip he played at trick three. He should encourage with 5-3, IMO.

With the 10, 9, and 7 on dummy, and only the Q-J-8 remaining, any heart card but the Queen from you should be count at this point, IMO. If you get a positive card as to hearts from partner, then, you send a heart count signal to partner. I'm not sure which card (8 or 4 or 3) sends the right message in your techniques. If you started with 2, you have to play the 8. So, you want to play the 8 from 4 and low from three, as that's easier to read, technically. So, probably upside-down present count makes the most sense. Not sure though.


After trying the spade (maybe disinterest in a club switch means try spades -- not unreasonable but not my choice), which sucks (like I would have guessed), a club out to partner's King (on which you have presumably given count), and a spade back to your 10, partner will know that Declarer either has 5215 shape or 5413 shape. Of course, 5413 shape is unlikely unless Declarer for some reason buried his 4-card heart suit. Furthermore, as you lead 2/4 leads, and returned the 3, you cannot have two hearts, and hence Declarer cannot have 4.

Of course, if you use upside-down present count on your heart play, as a return, partner is forced to rely on the bidding to work out that you have four hearts and not two, but that should be easy enough and is why I think the count assumption is proper (assumed upside-down present count).

[gnasher]

hackenbush, on Jun 12 2009, 06:39 PM, said:

At trick 4, West plays ♠2, 3, 8, 9. Declarer plays ♣2, 4, J, K. East leads ♠6, 7, T, 4. Now West comes back with ♥3. Obviously defense hasn't been great so far, but can East figure out to win ♥A?

Where I come from this would be trivial. With three low you play the second one and then the top one; with four low you play the second one and then the bottom one. Therefore East knows that South had only two hearts (regardless of what the bidding suggests), so he wins the second one.

There are good arguments against leading second from xxx and xxxx, but if you're going to play these methods you really shouldn't be playing that you play second-low from both holdings.

[OleBerg]

I am just curious;

some say that East should give count, and I would have done so myself, probably without second thought, and simply relying on general principles.

But is it really right?

I mean, partner has already ducked, so if partner has two diamonds, he will be forced to take the next trick. If West has three, the diamond position will be obvious to him, when declarer either shows out (East has three) or plays a small diamond (East has two). This can be deducted by looking at dummy's 6-cards suit.

[OleBerg]

hackenbush, on Jun 12 2009, 07:39 PM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: MP

♠ 43 ♥ K975 ♦ KQJT98 ♣ J ♠ KJT2 ♥ 8643 ♦ A72 ♣ 94 ♠ 86 ♥ AJ2 ♦ 543 ♣ K7653 ♠ AQ975 ♥ QT ♦ 6 ♣ AQT82

At trick 4, West plays ♠2, 3, 8, 9. Declarer plays ♣2, 4, J, K. East leads ♠6, 7, T, 4. Now West comes back with ♥3. Obviously defense hasn't been great so far, but can East figure out to win ♥A?

East should definitely have returned the ♥8. A wtp.

[kenrexford]

OleBerg, on Jun 13 2009, 12:17 AM, said:

I am just curious;

some say that East should give count, and I would have done so myself, probably without second thought, and simply relying on general principles.

But is it really right?

I mean, partner has already ducked, so if partner has two diamonds, he will be forced to take the next trick. If West has three, the diamond position will be obvious to him, when declarer either shows out (East has three) or plays a small diamond (East has two). This can be deducted by looking at dummy's 6-cards suit.

I thought about this years ago. The idea was that carding should be based completely on the needs of the defense and only lightly tied to certain rules. Hence, if count will be obvious, then you skip the count signal. If partner realizes that count would be meaningless as obvious, he assumes that count was not shown because you should be on the same wavelength.

You can extend this even further. Suppose, for instance, that you had a dummy with this diamond suit but no entry at all -- hearts was xxxx of something. In that event, on a heart lead, the style could assume that count in diamonds was more critical than anything else, where third to play actually gives count for diamonds with his heart pips, allowing partner on this hand to rise with the Ace on the first diamond (if he can rule out xxx for Declarer for some reason).

You can take this quite a ways. But, at a certain point, intelligent people who find this fascinating want to stone you.

And, coming from me, a person willing to go into the vast reaches of the twilight zone, that says something.

So, if you ever think along these lines, it is probably important to have very strictly discussed triggers for this sort of thing.