[PrecisionL]

Two possibilities not mentioned in this thread:

1) The American FORCING MINOR Bidding System by Joe Lutz & Jerry Fink, 1995.

They use a 1♦ response to 1♣ (16+ hcp) as a two-way bid. Either 0-3 or 8-13 hcp. Other responses (except 1NT = 14+) are semi-positive 4-7 and natural suits (3+ if 1M, 6+ if 2m). I have the book and have studied it, but never found anyone willing to play it.

2) The Millennium Club by Lyle Poe, 2002.

1♣ is 15+ hcp and responses are transfers:

1♦ = 0+ hcp and 4+♥
1♥ = 0+ hcp and 4+♠
1♠ = (a) 0-9 hcp and no 4M, (b) 8+ and defect for 1NT, c) 10+ 4M & 5m
1NT = 8-10 hcp & balanced
2♣ 8+ hcp, Transfer w 6+♦
2♦ 0-6 hcp, Transfer w 6+♥
2♥ 0-6 hcp, Transfer w 6+♠
2♠ 8+ hcp, Transfer w 6+♣
2NT = 11-12 hcp & balanced
3NT = 13-14 hcp & balanced

I have modified this for pairs and play it weekly with one partner.

Larry

[rbforster]

I've been looking at a strong club relay system with no direct negative bid. Still in the planning stages, but here's the short version -

1. 1♦ is multi-way, including most negative hands (bal or two-suiters). Negative hands are shown by a 1♠ rebid over opener's minimum 1♥ rebid.
2. other bids are transfer oriented and usually GF, but one-suiters could be 5-7 range (clarified later)

The initial responses are

1♦ most 0-7 hands; also positive with long ♥ or GF ♥+minor
1♥ positive with long ♠ or GF with ♠+minor
1♠ GF balanced, 4441, or long ♣
1NT GF majors
2♣ positive long ♦
2♦+ GF minors

"positive" referes to either game forcing or 5-7 strength ranges

[PrecisionL]

David Collier's RELAY MILLENNIUM CLUB has a dual 1♦ response, 1♣ - 1♦:

(a) Any 0-5 hcp hand without 5♠, or

(b) 4+♥

http://www.geocities.../RMC/index.html

Added 9/3/16: 1♣ - 1♥ = (a) 6+ hcp & 4+♠, or (b) 0-5 hcp & 5+♠

I am now playing the 1♦ response listed above.

[johnu]

This is the oldest necrothread that I remember seeing on BBF with the original thread starting in 2004.

[nullve]

PrecisionL, on 2016-August-27, 19:49, said:

David Collier's RELAY MILLENNIUM CLUB has a dual 1♦ response:

(a) Any 0-5 hcp hand without 5♠, or

(b) 4+♥

http://www.geocities.../RMC/index.html

Thank you, Larry.

[Hilver]

Take a glance at ''Hilversumse Klaveren'': www.clairebridge.com/textes/Hilversumse%20klaveren.pdf . Although this systembook is written in Dutch You will understand the bidding after an 1♣ opening bid. Start reading at page 71.

Jan (one of the authors )

In a second reply below You find the responds to an 1♣ opening bid.

[benlessard]

For slightly more than 10 years I play

1D H or pts (pts = any 6-8 and any GF bal)
1H = 4+S weak or GF
1S = no M weak or GF wiht 5D+4C D>=C
1NT =6clubs weak or GF
2C = 6D weak or GF
2D = 6H weak or GF
2H = 6S weak or GF
2S+ GF with 5C+4D C>D

all our 6card transfer are singlesuiter unless we have a weak hand and 6M+4m.

the key part is
1C-1D-1H-??

pass = weak with 4+H
1S = inv no M or GF bal
1NT = inv with 4 or 5S -----only time responder is making a non forcing bid that is not game.
2C = H+D GF or 6D INV
2D = INV with 4H or 5H+C GF
2H = 6S inv or H+S GF
2S & higher = C+4H GF

We play a weak nT and 15+ bal is opened 1C. What is the key trick is that since opener is likely 15-20 he will often accept the transfers and responder can pass with negative hand and go on with GF or sp hands. The drawback is when opener is 21+ he must super accept or refuse the transfer. Our relay break bid is 2D.

1C--1H--??

1S = 3S 15-20
1NT = 15-20 denies 3S
2C = natural 15-20
2D = almost GF
2H natural 6H 15-17 (but could be 15-20)
2S natural 19-21 with 4S
2NT 21-22

What make a system like this very strong is that its a shape first approach, with unbalanced hand or a weak hand responder show his shape with a balanced hand we let opener show his shapes.
Almost all of responder rebids are forcing (mostly xfers) so we have a huge amount of extras sequences.
We play narrow 2 pts NT rebid ranges so once we bypass 1NT we stop in 2Y or we are GF. We rarely play 2NT (unless 21-22 vs 0-3 and some case where opener is short in H) and never play 3 in a unless opener got clubs.

The only thing i changed was 1C-1D-1H used to be forcing. Im now convinced NF is better because it allow 1C-1D-1H-1S-1NT to be 15-16, 1C-1D-1NT = 17-18 this is worth more than the case where opener is 22+ and need a cheap forcing bid. I also tought about using canape style with both majors and GF but i didnt change it for simplicity.

[nullve]

benlessard, on 2016-September-03, 15:46, said:

For slightly more than 10 years I play

1D H or pts (pts = any 6-8 and any GF bal)
1H = 4+S weak or GF
1S = no M weak or GF wiht 5D+4C D>=C
1NT =6clubs weak or GF
2C = 6D weak or GF
2D = 6H weak or GF
2H = 6S weak or GF
2S+ GF with 5C+4D C>D

all our 6card transfer are singlesuiter unless we have a weak hand and 6M+4m.

the key part is
1C-1D-1H-??

pass = weak with 4+H
1S = inv no M or GF bal
1NT = inv with 4 or 5S -----only time responder is making a non forcing bid that is not game.
2C = H+D GF or 6D INV
2D = INV with 4H or 5H+C GF
2H = 6S inv or H+S GF
2S & higher = C+4H GF

We play a weak nT and 15+ bal is opened 1C. What is the key trick is that since opener is likely 15-20 he will often accept the transfers and responder can pass with negative hand and go on with GF or sp hands.

I've often wondered what price you pay for this (very interesting) structure. Am I right that

1♣-1♦
1♥-2♦
2♥-P

with, say, 15-16, 3H(433) opposite 6-8, 3433 can happen?

[benlessard]

The price we pay is that our 1D is like in polish clubs it always show 4D unb (but 11-21) so we must play 12-14 NT at any vul and our strong club start at 15. We need to do this since 1C-1Y-2D need to be artificial for opener 21+ hands. Since our 1D show 4 our 2C could be 5C+4M. I way prefer to play 2C can be 5 and 1D is 4+ than 1D can be 2 but its a minority view. There is also other strong hand that are not opened 1C. Our 1M opening is 11-14 or 18-20 UNB (with 15-17 or 21+ we open 1C) the spirit is the same than for min-max michaels.

with 3433 responder will mostly 1S (6-8 no 4M, or GF bal act as range ask) but its true that we often play 1M or 2M in 4-3 fit.

1C-1D-1H-1S-??

1NT = 15-16 not always bal
2C = 15-16 5C+3/4H
2D = 6H or 5H+5S or 5H but 17-18
2H = 5S+4H
2S = 17+ with clubs and 3/4H

Note that 1C-1D-1NT is 17-18 denies 4H. So when opener rebid 1H hes got 15-16 (will refuse and INV) 19-20 (will be GF over an inv but stop in 1H vs crappy) or hes got 4H 15-17

With 4H and good 18-21 we jump to 2H
1C-1D-2H if responder is crappy we have a H fit if hes semi-positive or GF bal we are in GF.


Some trick to build a system...

there is 3 types of unbalanced responder hands

crappy, semi posi and GF. My view is that weak and GF are the one that mesh the best since opener will assume weak and responder will keep bidding with the GF hand.

Also its more efficient when its responder that pass than when its opener that pass since the range of the opener is more narrow. So a system where is opener that make the non forcing bid and its responder that pass are better than the other way around.

[Hilver]

As a follow up to my first reply on 1♣ - 1♦:


First respond and meaning
1♥
•Relay
• 4- 7 HP
• 4♥-4♠ or 5♥-4♠ or 4♥-5♠
• Nonforcing

1♠/1NT/
2♣/♦ •Transferbid: 1♠ = ♣, 1SA = ♦. 2♣ = ♥, 2♦ = ♠
• 6+-card, second 4+-card is possible. No 5+-5+ ♥/♠ with 4-7 HP.
• 0-7 HP

2♥ •4-7 HP
• 5+-card ♥ and 5+-card ♠
• nonforcing

2♠ •5+-card ♣ and 5+-card ♦
• 4-7 HP

2SA •Transfer to ♣
• 7+-krt ♣ with 2 honnors
• 5-7 HP
• No points in sidesuits
• Rebids OH are natural (4♦/4♥/♠ after 2SA is a controlbid).: 3♦ after 2SA is natural!

3♣ •Transfer to ♦
• 7+-krt ♦ met 2 honnors
• 5-7 HP
• No points in side suits
• Rebids OH are natural (4♣/4♥/♠ after 3♣ are controlbids).

3♦ •Transfer to ♥
• 7+-krt ♥ with 2 honnors, 5 -7 HP in that suit
• No points in side suits
• rebid OH of 3♠ is natuaral
• rebid of 4♣/♦ is controlbid and ♥ set as trump suit

3♥ •Transfer to ♠
• 7+-krt ♠ with 2 honneurs, 5 -7 HP
• No HCP in siede suits
• rebid OH of 3♠ is natural
• rebid of 4♣/♦ is a controlbid and ♠ trump suit

3♠ •7+-krt in ♣/♦ (Gambling NT)
• No points in side suits

4♣/♦ •4♣ transfer to ♥
• 4♦ transfer to ♠
• 7+-card with AKQ; no HCP in side suits

1♦ With all other distributions and HCP
AH may be weak or even very strong in HCP

Jan

[foobar]

Since no one mentioned it, IMPrecision has had 1♣ - 1♦ as either very weak or a strong GF hand for ages. It might sound odd, but in practice works great, and IMO it's arguably the best strong 1♣ structure out there. On an unrelated note, it's probably one of the very best (artificial) 1♦ structures as well, but I digress .

http://www.bridgewit...IMprecision.pdf

[PrecisionL]

I am test driving in club games a version of "Millennium Club" with add-ons from Carl Mosca:

1♣(16+ hcp) - 1♦ -

(a) 0-5 hcp any distribution

(b) 5+ hcp and 4+♥

Example: 1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥ (3+♥s, N.F.) -

1♠ (Artificial, bust 0-5 & 0-3♠)

1NT (Artificial, bust and 4+♠)

2♣ (Natural & 5-9 hcp with exactly 4♥)

2♦ (Natural & 5-9 hcp with exactly 4♥)

2♥ (Natural & 5-9 hcp with 5♥)