[helene_t]

Seriously, I have no strong opinion about whether hunters should be allowed to shoot the Loch Ness monster if they find it. But why don't we start a 45 page thread about the issue anyway, just for fun? I mean, we all know that genuine psychs are very rare.

[mike777]

helene_t, on Jun 13 2009, 07:46 PM, said:

Seriously, I have no strong opinion about whether hunters should be allowed to shoot the Loch Ness monster if they find it. But why don't we start a 45 page thread about the issue anyway, just for fun? I mean, we all know that genuine psychs are very rare.

ok anyone who shoots/kills nessie...sucks...expand analogy as you are able.

I mean really can anyone prove Jlall and Jdonn go to local club and.....

nonusa....fill in players of your choice!

[JoAnneM]

Perhaps I am too idealistic. I envison a player who has achieved a certain level of expertise at the game as being "pro" bridge, not just "pro" himself. I have played against people like Baze, Soloway, Passell, etc who have (had) exceptional table presence and whom I could not imagine doing anything to make a novice want to leave the game. On the other hand I have played against two "pros" in the last year whom I think are a disgrace to the game.

I don't think patient sportmanship and gracious table presence costs one MP or IMP in the long run and it leaves newer players wanting to come back and play the expert players again, so they can learn something. And not psyching against a brand new player is part of that.

[Jlall]

JoAnneM, on Jun 13 2009, 10:17 PM, said:

I don't think patient sportmanship and gracious table presence costs one MP or IMP in the long run...

Well this is untrue. If you don't open 1N with xx xx QJT9xx Kxx w/r in third seat vs a novice you are costing yourself imps in the long run. Even with higher volatility vs a bad pair, you are gaining in expectation for sure. However I still believe its not right to do so.

Quote

I mean really can anyone prove Jlall and Jdonn go to local club and.....

What? I played about 5 club games a week for a year and a half, but jdonn doesn't play bridge obv.

[olegru]

If my understandings correct - The main reason why the perfectly legal action like baby psych does not considered as an appropriate against unknown opponents is – you thinks this can annoy the beginners and even turn them out of bridge.
Question: what about much more often and even more painful for novices issues, are they appropriate?
Examples:
1. (pass) - pass - (1 spade) – pass - (2 clubs, no alert) – pass – (pass) - dbl – (2 spade, my God, partner again forgot we are playing Druri). Is it classy to call Director here? Opponents clear not experienced and directors call 100% will annoy them and probably turn out of bridge? Of cause it is just one of a thousands possible MI examples.
2. You are declarer. You lead to KDx on the table and RHO play her smallest card, but hesitated long enough to make it perfectly obvious she has the Ace. Your only possible plan was to convenience her partner later lead another suit, but now he can not make a mistake. RHO very proud she found the hold up play and will be extremely unhappy if you will question her wonderful performance calling TD. Will you call him or classy player just have to accept losses like that in not the top level game?
3. Novice opponent has a penalty card. Is it appropriate to take advantage of that? I guess opponent will not feel it is fare to lose trick such a stupid way and it can turn him or her out of bridge.
4. Bidding 3NT with no stopper in known opponent’s suit. It is contradict what they learn in classes and by beginners opinion more poker than bridge.
5. Lead unsupported honor. If you will be lucky enough to find partner with another honor in this suit, they can think something fishy is going on.
6. Underlead the Ace in a trump contract if you think situation is good for this kind of action. They learn from the teacher experts never do it and surely will get situation wrong. Don’t you feel you took a candy from a baby by undeleading the Ace?
7. Preempt with a very bad suit?
And so on and soo on...

[jdonn]

Jlall, on Jun 14 2009, 01:30 AM, said:

Quote

I mean really can anyone prove Jlall and Jdonn go to local club and.....

What? I played about 5 club games a week for a year and a half, but jdonn doesn't play bridge obv.

I think I played in 2 clubs games this year, but I'm about to go to a regional for a weekend, and an NABC!

[georgeac]

jillybean2, on Jun 7 2009, 08:24 PM, said:

I am one of those intermediate players some think best to protect from psyches. When I play in an open field, I hope the players will play their best game. If this means psyching, false carding or playing multi so be it, it’s all part of this wonderfully complex game. The first time I encounter something new it can throw me and I get a bottom board. I don’t stop playing, I can learn from it and maybe the next time or the 5th time it happens I will be prepared and get a top board. That buzz when you bid your game in a difficult auction, despite what the opps throw at you, keeps me playing the game.

If I want a ‘safe game’ I can always play 0-299ers or new-comer games although playing against other weak players I find is more nerve wrecking, has more weird auctions, bids close to psyches and UI passed than playing against ‘experts’. Suggesting that players should dumb down their game against inexperienced players is both arrogant and I believe, detrimental to my game

I agree 100% with this. I am also an intermediate player. I played an open swiss and got psyched against and lost a match by 3 imps because of it. At first I was upset but then was glad that it happened because it was the first time it had happened to me. I now know what to expect and what I can do to still find the right contract the next that it happens.

[TimG]

georgeac, on Jun 15 2009, 08:49 PM, said:

I played an open swiss and got psyched against and lost a match by 3 imps because of it.

The match was 3-0?

[georgeac]

TimG, on Jun 15 2009, 08:54 PM, said:

georgeac, on Jun 15 2009, 08:49 PM, said:

I played an open swiss and got psyched against and lost a match by 3 imps because of it.

The match was 3-0?

okay you might have a point. but we lost quite a few imps on that board and the others in the match were close or push.

[Cascade]

Jlall, on Jun 14 2009, 06:30 PM, said:

JoAnneM, on Jun 13 2009, 10:17 PM, said:

I don't think patient sportmanship and gracious table presence costs one MP or IMP in the long run...

Well this is untrue. If you don't open 1N with xx xx QJT9xx Kxx w/r in third seat vs a novice you are costing yourself imps in the long run. Even with higher volatility vs a bad pair, you are gaining in expectation for sure. However I still believe its not right to do so.

If you open that hand in most jurisdictions routinely (in other words part of your partnership's methods) then you are playing an illegal system.

[vuroth]

jillybean2, on Jun 7 2009, 08:24 PM, said:

I am one of those intermediate players some think best to protect from psyches. When I play in an open field, I hope the players will play their best game. If this means psyching, false carding or playing multi so be it, it’s all part of this wonderfully complex game. The first time I encounter something new it can throw me and I get a bottom board. I don’t stop playing, I can learn from it and maybe the next time or the 5th time it happens I will be prepared and get a top board. That buzz when you bid your game in a difficult auction, despite what the opps throw at you, keeps me playing the game.

If I want a ‘safe game’ I can always play 0-299ers or new-comer games although playing against other weak players I find is more nerve wrecking, has more weird auctions, bids close to psyches and UI passed than playing against ‘experts’. Suggesting that players should dumb down their game against inexperienced players is both arrogant and I believe, detrimental to my game

Sorry for arriving late to the show, but I wanted to offer a few "Huzzah"s for jillybean's fantastic post.

[helene_t]

ditto vuroth

[JoAnneM]

disregard