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♠AKJxxx
♥Axx
♦AKx
♣K
You're the dealer, both sides vulnerable.
What do you open this hand? Sudamericano de Parejas 2009, Chile
#1
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Posted 2009-May-17, 06:44
wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:
Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.
rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:
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#2
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Posted 2009-May-17, 06:48
1♠. I think 3NT over partner's 1NT response shows something like this, but if I am not confident about that, 3♦ is ok, too.
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#3
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Posted 2009-May-17, 06:49
I'd open 1♠
Swap the King of Clubs for a Queen in any other suit and it looks like a 2♣ opener
Swap the King of Clubs for a Queen in any other suit and it looks like a 2♣ opener
Alderaan delenda est
#4
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Posted 2009-May-17, 07:37
hrothgar, on May 17 2009, 07:49 AM, said:
I'd open 1♠
Swap the King of Clubs for a Queen in any other suit and it looks like a 2♣ opener
Swap the King of Clubs for a Queen in any other suit and it looks like a 2♣ opener
I am not happy about 2♣ either, but to open 1♠ is fraught with danger. Just how would partner know that ♠xxx and ♦Q equates to game?
The other advantage I would add to the 2♣ bid is the implications of a positive response from partner. Compare a 1NT response to 1♠ and a positive response to 2♣, which position would you prefer to be in?
This hand may well fail the MLTC, but that system would singularly fail you for partner to respond accordingly.
bridge is never always a game of exact, for those times it's all about percentages, partner and the opponents.
#5
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Posted 2009-May-17, 08:05
1NT. Artificial, forcing, 4-5 losers, 6+ controls, usually 18-21 HCP, or balanced, 6 controls, 19-20 HCP.
Strong club systems also deal well with this kind of problem hand.
This hand is not good enough for 2 :c:, unless your 2 :c: opener follows the "I don't want to open at the one level; partner might pass" rule which I think is a very bad misuse of the 2 :c: opening.
Strong club systems also deal well with this kind of problem hand.
This hand is not good enough for 2 :c:, unless your 2 :c: opener follows the "I don't want to open at the one level; partner might pass" rule which I think is a very bad misuse of the 2 :c: opening.
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#6
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Posted 2009-May-17, 08:05
Er, play strong twos anyone? Or Benji? Or Multi with strong twos in the majors?
What about a strong 1C system?
Or a multi way club system?
No. OK then.
Forced to choose between 2C and 1S - well it is a horrible choice - there are some quite minimal responding hands on which we could have a slam that partner will tend not to want to be in unless forced. Equally there are some near busts where we will be in a dodgy game if we start with 2C. Personally my poison is 2C - but I quite see why others would argue the other way.
Nick
What about a strong 1C system?
Or a multi way club system?
No. OK then.
Forced to choose between 2C and 1S - well it is a horrible choice - there are some quite minimal responding hands on which we could have a slam that partner will tend not to want to be in unless forced. Equally there are some near busts where we will be in a dodgy game if we start with 2C. Personally my poison is 2C - but I quite see why others would argue the other way.
Nick
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#7
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Posted 2009-May-17, 08:14
This is probably one of the best hands that I would not open 2♣.
I open 1♠ with some trepidation, knowing that opposite xxx xxx Qxx xxxx I have very good play for game, and that opposite xxxx xxx Qxx xxx game is virtually cold.
My criteria for a 2♣ opening on an unbalanced hand is 3 or less losers using MLTC. This hand has 4 losers.
I open 1♠ with some trepidation, knowing that opposite xxx xxx Qxx xxxx I have very good play for game, and that opposite xxxx xxx Qxx xxx game is virtually cold.
My criteria for a 2♣ opening on an unbalanced hand is 3 or less losers using MLTC. This hand has 4 losers.
#8
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Posted 2009-May-17, 08:19
Hanoi5, on May 17 2009, 07:44 AM, said:
♠AKJxxx
♥Axx
♦AKx
♣K
You're the dealer, both sides vulnerable.
♥Axx
♦AKx
♣K
You're the dealer, both sides vulnerable.
1s...max
#9
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Posted 2009-May-17, 09:07
2♣ - min. I don't like my stiff K, but I have 9 controls and a good six card suit.
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#10
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Posted 2009-May-17, 10:02
I open 2♣, I could only justify opening 1♠ if I ignore the king of clubs which I'm not prepared to do.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#11
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Posted 2009-May-17, 10:04
blackshoe, on May 17 2009, 09:05 AM, said:
This hand is not good enough for 2 :c:, unless your 2 :c: opener follows the "I don't want to open at the one level; partner might pass" rule which I think is a very bad misuse of the 2 :c: opening.
What if you follow the "I have 22 hcp and a good 6 card suit" rule?
What if you follow the "Qxxxxx of diamonds and out in partner's hand is probably a slam" rule?
What if you follow the "About a million different 6 counts make slam and we can hardly bid any of them after 1♠ even after partner responds" rule?
I'm not trying to be too critical of 1♠, just pointing out there are lots of rules someone could use to justify 2♣.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#12
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Posted 2009-May-17, 10:08
2C. I like the rule about the 22 HCP and the good 6-card suit best.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
#13
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Posted 2009-May-17, 10:37
2♣ for me, game is good opposite xxx xxx xx xxxxx
Wayne Somerville
#14
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Posted 2009-May-17, 11:27
2♣, or a polish style 1♣.
#15
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Posted 2009-May-17, 11:43
2♣.
The more these hands come up, the more I am convinced that it makes sense to open 2♣ is I have six spades and a hand that I could treat as a balanced 22-23 if I wanted to.
The more these hands come up, the more I am convinced that it makes sense to open 2♣ is I have six spades and a hand that I could treat as a balanced 22-23 if I wanted to.
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Posted 2009-May-17, 12:36
hanp, on May 17 2009, 11:08 AM, said:
2C. I like the rule about the 22 HCP and the good 6-card suit best.
How original.
The hand is the classic example hand used to show the difficulties with "standard" systems and how strong 1C systems solve this problem. IMO there is no right or wrong or even "best" answer - there is just varying opinions.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
#17
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Posted 2009-May-17, 13:54
I am quite happy to open 2♣ on this hand, but I would prefer to treat it as an Acol Strong 2 if possible (Benji)
I have a very good 6 card suit, 4+ losers, 5++QT and a good 22 count. It is far too good to devalue to 1♠, too easy to miss game or slam (maybe 4♥/6♥) imho
Tony
I have a very good 6 card suit, 4+ losers, 5++QT and a good 22 count. It is far too good to devalue to 1♠, too easy to miss game or slam (maybe 4♥/6♥) imho
Tony
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#18
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Posted 2009-May-17, 14:18
2♣, showing 22+ points or 8.5 tricks, luckily I have both, WTP?
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Posted 2009-May-17, 17:08
Winstonm, on May 17 2009, 01:36 PM, said:
hanp, on May 17 2009, 11:08 AM, said:
2C. I like the rule about the 22 HCP and the good 6-card suit best.
How original.
The hand is the classic example hand used to show the difficulties with "standard" systems and how strong 1C systems solve this problem. IMO there is no right or wrong or even "best" answer - there is just varying opinions.
You open 2C, then bid 2S. Where is the problem?
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
#20
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Posted 2009-May-17, 19:06
hanp, on May 17 2009, 06:08 PM, said:
Winstonm, on May 17 2009, 01:36 PM, said:
hanp, on May 17 2009, 11:08 AM, said:
2C. I like the rule about the 22 HCP and the good 6-card suit best.
How original.
The hand is the classic example hand used to show the difficulties with "standard" systems and how strong 1C systems solve this problem. IMO there is no right or wrong or even "best" answer - there is just varying opinions.
You open 2C, then bid 2S. Where is the problem?
It is fine to hold strong opinions about the best approach, but to infer that there is no other way or no problems in that approach is something else indeed.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."