[thebiker]

How do most players handle responding to 2NT openers when they have game or better values with 3Major1OtherMajor4/5Minors shape?

Does anyone have specific methods for handling these distributions?

thanks in advance for your answers

regards

thebiker

[Fluffy]

I bid 3♠ as minor suit stayman or alike, Don't have the room to describe shortness below 3NT.

[hrothgar]

I was toying with methods in which you start with puppet Stayman; however, I still haven't been able to unwind all the hand types.

I still think that should be possible.

[Fluffy]

hrothgar, on May 5 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

I was toying with methods in which you start with puppet Stayman; however, I still haven't been able to unwind all the hand types.

I still think that should be possible.

Have a bite at regular stayman? it shoud give you a bit more room.

[Wackojack]

With one partner:
3S= please bid 3NT then:
pass = to play
4c = 5c+4d
4d= 5d + 4c
4h= 5-5m, 1h+2s
4s= 5-5m, 2h + 1s.

1nt-3nt = 5s+4h

[Phil]

Usually you start with Stayman and bid your minor (slammish or really distributional) if pard misses your major or 3N (minimums).

I think 3-1(54) are relatively low frequency over 2N openers to design a system around. There are higher priorities, and what is usually critical on these hands is whether or not it is right to be in 3N, and you just can't cram it into one level.

[kfay]

I started a thread similar to this that never really caught on here.

I think the structure is clearly better than wackojack's. Although I guess I say this without knowing how he makes single-suited minor slamtries.

[jdonn]

hrothgar, on May 5 2009, 09:43 AM, said:

I was toying with methods in which you start with puppet Stayman; however, I still haven't been able to unwind all the hand types.

I still think that should be possible.

I did exactly that about 6 or 7 years ago. I don't have the file any more unfortunately, but you could bid puppet stayman, and all the (31)(45) hands were showable after that if you chose, as well as many other hand types such as 5-5 in the majors. It involved 4♣ after the stayman response being a further relay in many cases (even allowing you to drop in 4♦ with something like a yarb with 6 diamonds and a 4 card major), and also 3♠ over 3♦ being a transfer. The original responses were

3♦: 4 spades or neither major.
___3♥: Asking spade length (3♠ 3 or 4 over which 3NT shows 4, 3NT 2)
___3♠: Transfer to 3NT
___3NT: 4-5 in the majors
3♥: 4 hearts
3♠: 5 spades
3NT: 5 hearts

It was a very impractical system with lots of artificial bids to double, but it found every major suit fit, opener declared 100% of the major suit fits (including responder 4-5, 5-4, and 5-5 in the majors, something I may never have seen in any other system), all those hand types mentioned above could be shown and others such as (30)(55), and lots of other sequences were freed up and better defined. For example since stayman encompassed all those major suit hands, transfering to one major then bidding the other could be something artificial like a mild slam try in your major, or perhaps a relay of some kind. Also bidding minor suit stayman then showing shortness in a major was specifically (21)(55) because other shapes were included in stayman.

[1eyedjack]

I put up a structure here
http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...indpost&p=33201
designed very much with the OP in mind.
Not surprisingly (if you read it) it never really caught on.

[karlson]

We did this a very simple way once. We play 2n-3c-3h as no major, so over either

2n-3c-3h (no major) or
2n-3c-3d (one+ major)

4h=13(45)
4s=31(45)

It came up so rarely (i.e. never) that it's basically been forgotten.

[jdonn]

karlson, on May 5 2009, 12:03 PM, said:

We did this a very simple way once. We play 2n-3c-3h as no major, so over either

2n-3c-3h (no major) or
2n-3c-3d (one+ major)

4h=13(45)
4s=31(45)

It came up so rarely (i.e. never) that it's basically been forgotten.

That prevents you from starting with stayman with 4-6 or 6-4 in the majors, unless you have another way to show that.

[karlson]

6-4 is still ok (3s over 3h, 4s over 3n), and with 4-6, I would transfer and bid 3s, then 4h over 3n?