[fyrish]

LHO opens 1♥, partner overcalls 1NT. RHO bids 2♦. LHO bids 2♥ and partner dbles. Is this take out or penalty?

(1♥) - 1NT - (2♦) - PASS

(2♥) - X


Opps are vul, imps.

[the hog]

Unusual auction. Penalty I guess.

[Ant590]

I would think t/o, but only via the symmetry principle (I would expect advancer's balancing double to be t/o, so overcaller's should be too... usually). I don't feel strongly about this though.

[petterb]

Penalty. If partner had a takeout double of hearts he should have doubled 1H instead of overcalling 1NT.

[Tomi2]

TO, I dont play penalty Doubles on this level with partner bidding nothing, 4 spades AQJ or AQT or so in hearts and 4 clubs and maximum

[hotShot]

1NT is limited in strength and shape (even if it were a Raptor NT), it's unlikely suitable to penalty dbl at the 2 level.
So it has to be a T/o-dbl.

[Gerben42]

Perhaps I missorted my hand. Barring that, it shows something like 4225 with a good ♥ stop (like AQ).

[ArtK78]

Penalty. Prepared for a run to 3♦.

A typical hand:

Ax
AQT9
KQTx
Qxx

[kenberg]

The simpler auction 1NT-pass-pass-(2H)-X presumably is a maximum NT with short hearts. I would take the current auction to be similar, the difference being that in the simpler auction doubler's heart holding is likely to be something like xx, where here it is likely to be something like Ax. Fourth hand did not double 2D but he might well have something useful in hearts. If not, I think he should bid.

I would not want my life to depend on my being right.

[mtvesuvius]

I would play this as penalty, if partner had a T/O double, he could have made one the round before. I would imagine something like xx AQTxx AJxx Ax, something that doesn't need much help from partner to set 2♥ Xed.

[Phil]

Penalty, although I don't agree that that I have diamonds locked up.

[fyrish]

Interesting - 10 replies, 5 say take out, 5 penalties. I thought it was penalties and had to go back to team mates with -1070. Probably partner shouldn't have bid it and I should have taken it out just in case.

[whereagles]

By meta agreements, it's take out. Something like

KQxx
Axx
xx
AKxx

[peachy]

It is penalty-oriented, for me. If 1NT overcaller had a TAKEOUT DBL of hearts, he would have made the takeout double then, instead of bidding 1NT. Responder [who passed the 2D bid] is invited to leave it in unless he has clear reason not to leave in. Reasons include void in hearts, 5-5 clubs and spades, singleton heart with a long suit and weak hand, etc.

[CSGibson]

Penalty. Likely 4 heart tricks, and enough other crap that they are not making. If you have a takeout of hearts now, then you had a takeout of hearts before, too.

Edit: I just realized this was slow. You might have only had 1 or 2 diamonds, and didn't want partner choosing that strain before. I still think this is penalty, but the argument is nowhere near as strong as I thought it was.

[1eyedjack]

petterb, on Mar 6 2009, 12:33 PM, said:

Penalty. If partner had a takeout double of hearts he should have doubled 1H instead of overcalling 1NT.

Takeout, for me. With balanced hand in range for NT overcall and only 2 or 3 Hearts adequately guarded I say that initial 1N overcall is better than double.

Ant590, on Mar 6 2009, 12:15 PM, said:

I would think t/o, but only via the symmetry principle (I would expect advancer's balancing double to be t/o, so overcaller's should be too... usually). I don't feel strongly about this though.

I go along with this. But I also think that a penalty double in protective seat is playable, so I don't feel strongly either.

[bill1157]

partner's X is almost an impossible bid. might work out but probably not.

Bill

[Flameous]

I somehow think partner's ideal hand for this auction is 4414. It has both, takeout and penalty in it so no matter what partner does, it has to be a good decision. Only thing I would be sure is that p doesn't hold diamonds. (And I'm pretty sure I do)

[Free]

Imo it's penalty