[jdonn]

awm, on Mar 2 2009, 08:41 PM, said:

I submit that on the 10% of hands where we have no fit, my expected score from opening will be very bad. There essentially are no good cases.

Do you really mean that?

[pirate22]

Have no FEAR u have a partner open 1 spade (count your losers )even if pard has a bust --your hand is 5 losers possibly 5 Half losers

let the opposition sort it out,remember your pard is still there ))))))))))))))))))
regards who is AWM?

[bid_em_up]

I usually play a sound opening 2/1 system. I always pass this in 1st/2nd seats, and would always open it in 3rd/4th.

[dicklont]

pirate22, on Mar 3 2009, 08:03 AM, said:

[snip]
regards who is AWM?

AWM is on the previous page.
No pun intended.

[dcvetkov]

Ok

here is what happened. I opened this with unfamiliar partner and we got a bad score, in a what I think normal auction. Then partner went balistic how I should have passed, and she would not open in milion years.

My opinion and experience is that this hand should be open and you have to get there to start bidding what you have early. One disadvantage is not exactly what awm is saying, but more the danger is that partner will X them in some partscore or game, and expect more defence from you. On the other side, I think people who are in the " I have time to describe my hand later" camp, are a little too optimistic. What do you do for example after 1C- pass - 3C or simular?

Full hand.

---

Bidding


S W N E
1S 2H 3H 4C
P P X All pass


Ok, the guy showed up with 7-5, so its unbeatable and I file this under " reasonable action - bad result", But do you agree with the last X? And more over should I take it out?

[FrancesHinden]

My husband would pass this hand. I wouldn't. He basically refuses to open these 5-5 10 counts unless they have two aces.

The actual hand doesn't prove anything, assuming 3H showed spade support, don't you have an obvious 4S bid over 4C, or at the very least over 4Cx?

[jdonn]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 3 2009, 11:37 AM, said:

The actual hand doesn't prove anything, assuming 3H showed spade support, don't you have an obvious 4S bid over 4C, or at the very least over 4Cx?

Obvious is not a strong enough word. Although I can't think of a stronger one.

[mikeh]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 3 2009, 11:37 AM, said:

My husband would pass this hand.  I wouldn't.  He basically refuses to open these 5-5 10 counts unless they have two aces.

The actual hand doesn't prove anything, assuming 3H showed spade support, don't you have an obvious 4S bid over 4C, or at the very least over 4Cx?

Agreed.. not because we expect to make 4♠... after the 2♥ overcall, we can no longer hope to make our contract, but because we have almost zero defence... we have no realistic hope of more than 1 trick in our hand.. I mean, most of the time LHO will hold 6 hearts for an overcall when we hold KQ of the suit. I would have opened the South hand and passed the West, fwiw.

As it is, not only do we have, in essence, negative defence, but we can be fairly certain that partner's defence is ill-placed.

I stopped passing as opener on these hands about 14 years ago, which not coincidentally was when my game improved a lot. I used to be, and still am in some regards, very conservative.

Adam... you are definitely seeing too many half-empty glasses. I think you are quite right in your fears except that you credit the opps with doing the right thing (or avoiding the wrong thing) too much. Some of the disasters that you should get from opening don't end up as disasters.

[Hanoi5]

Half your partner's HCP's were in your suit, he had a worthless doubleton in his RHO opponent (so if anyone had values there it was you), he had a finessable honor in his LHO trump suit. Double was pretty bad, IMO, a MP decision it appears.

[Phil]

Hate North's double but would have pulled anyway with South.

[dcvetkov]

jdonn, on Mar 3 2009, 11:43 AM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Mar 3 2009, 11:37 AM, said:

The actual hand doesn't prove anything, assuming 3H showed spade support, don't you have an obvious 4S bid over 4C, or at the very least over 4Cx?

Obvious is not a strong enough word. Although I can't think of a stronger one.

Is it really that obvious?

So what you are saying is :"I know I have no hope of making 4s, opposite limit raise but I am going to bid it anyway? To sacrifice against their 4C at IMPS, and they may not even have a fit?

Not to mention that perfect defence seems can get 300 againts 4s X it seems ( Not that East would leave that in, anyway)

Passing 4c for -150 would be a fine score. A lot of people bid to 5 clubs, no doubt in some cases pushed by NS

[jdonn]

dcvetkov, on Mar 3 2009, 01:27 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 3 2009, 11:43 AM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Mar 3 2009, 11:37 AM, said:

The actual hand doesn't prove anything, assuming 3H showed spade support, don't you have an obvious 4S bid over 4C, or at the very least over 4Cx?

Obvious is not a strong enough word. Although I can't think of a stronger one.

Is it really that obvious?

So what you are saying is :"I know I have no hope of making 4s, opposite limit raise but I am going to bid it anyway? To sacrifice against their 4C at IMPS, and they may not even have a fit?

Not to mention that perfect defence seems can get 300 againts 4s X it seems ( Not that East would leave that in, anyway)

Passing 4c for -150 would be a fine score. A lot of people bid to 5 clubs, no doubt in some cases pushed by NS

I certainly didn't say there is no hope of making 4♠. Partner had a 10 count, half of which was absolutely wasted. I agree passing 4♣ would work better this time, except that partner made a ridiculous double. Of course the opponents missed game too, so who knows what will work best if both sides are apt to make silly errors.

[mikeh]

jdonn, on Mar 3 2009, 01:59 PM, said:

dcvetkov, on Mar 3 2009, 01:27 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 3 2009, 11:43 AM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Mar 3 2009, 11:37 AM, said:

The actual hand doesn't prove anything, assuming 3H showed spade support, don't you have an obvious 4S bid over 4C, or at the very least over 4Cx?

Obvious is not a strong enough word. Although I can't think of a stronger one.

Is it really that obvious?

So what you are saying is :"I know I have no hope of making 4s, opposite limit raise but I am going to bid it anyway? To sacrifice against their 4C at IMPS, and they may not even have a fit?

Not to mention that perfect defence seems can get 300 againts 4s X it seems ( Not that East would leave that in, anyway)

Passing 4c for -150 would be a fine score. A lot of people bid to 5 clubs, no doubt in some cases pushed by NS

I certainly didn't say there is no hope of making 4♠. Partner had a 10 count, half of which was absolutely wasted. I agree passing 4♣ would work better this time, except that partner made a ridiculous double. Of course the opponents missed game too, so who knows what will work best if both sides are apt to make silly errors.

I agree that this is not a 'no hope' of making 4♠, but we definitely need at least 4 trump and some other help, since we have a lot of heart losers (4 by my count) and we can't expect to ruff them low in dummy since RHO will be overruffing. But I do agree that this is a bid anyway... even if partner 'has' his double, which he doesn't, our hand is going to be a huge disappointment to him on defence. This is not one of those situations in which he doubles to say he caught them speeding.