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your plan

#1 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 05:25

Axx
QJ9x
T8xx
xx

partner opens 1NT non-vulnerable at mp's. what's your plan?

your partner's 1NT opener never is a 14 count, could be a very very bad (maybe bottom 5%) 18 count and includes about a third of his 5M332's in the range.
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#2 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 05:50

I would pass. Maybe a double dummy simulator will reveal that stayman is a winner, but I am not really optimistic about my position if partner bids either 2♦ or 2♠.
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#3 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 05:51

Pass
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#4 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 05:51

the overtricks my partner steals, or the opponents gift are worth more points in NT.
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#5 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 06:01

Pass wtp?
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#6 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 06:48

I pass, too. Many things can go wrong and anyway I wouldn't want a partner who opens 1NT (15-17) with 18.

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#7 User is offline   brianshark 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 07:18

I don't see an 8th point anywhere.

I don't even know why your asking this question, unless game happened to make opposite pard's 17 count, or some "expert" berated you for not inviting. :)
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#8 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 08:23

First inform partner that he/she may not open 1NT with 18 when they play with you. Then pass smoothly, maybe LHO will balance.
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#9 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 08:44

My plan is Pass.

With all due respect, this is not a problem.
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#10 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 09:01

stayman. invite in ♥ pass 2♠. invite NT over 2♦...
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#11 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 09:09

matmat, on Mar 2 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

stayman. invite in ♥ pass 2♠. invite NT over 2♦...

Looks like a zero to me :)
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#12 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 09:18

mtvesuvius, on Mar 2 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

matmat, on Mar 2 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

stayman. invite in ♥ pass 2♠. invite NT over 2♦...

Looks like a zero to me :)

i collect those.
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#13 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 09:51

pass
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#14 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 10:37

Pass.

The only invitation I will send is to the opponents to enter the bidding.

RSVP's not required, but they should wear something that won't show blood.
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#15 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 10:45

mtvesuvius, on Mar 2 2009, 08:09 AM, said:

matmat, on Mar 2 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

stayman. invite in ♥ pass 2♠. invite NT over 2♦...

Looks like a zero to me :)

I think you are being very harsh; I would estimate that stayman is only a small loser (something like a 40-45% action, if passing 1N is a 50% action). I would bid stayman if I were swinging for tops.
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#16 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 11:13

I just want to clarify. Is the view of everyone that this is a non-problem but
Axx
QJxx
Jxxx
xx
would be a bid, or at least a 'problem'?
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#17 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 11:18

jdonn, on Mar 2 2009, 10:13 AM, said:

I just want to clarify. Is the view of everyone that this is a non-problem but
Axx
QJxx
Jxxx
xx
would be a bid, or at least a 'problem'?

I would stayman this hand.
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#18 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 11:21

rogerclee, on Mar 2 2009, 12:18 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 2 2009, 10:13 AM, said:

I just want to clarify. Is the view of everyone that this is a non-problem but
Axx
QJxx
Jxxx
xx
would be a bid, or at least a 'problem'?

I would stayman this hand.

I wouldn't. The ♦J isn't enough for me.

I would Stayman Axx QJTx Jxxx xx however.
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#19 User is offline   brianshark 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 11:23

Yeah, pretty much. Your hand becomes a 'bad' 8 count I suppose because it now has less than the average number of high spots, so I suppose it's more of a problem than a clear bid.

I know there's not a world of difference between the 2 hands. But you have to draw a line somewhere and say what's good enough to invite and what isn't, and opposite a 1NT bid, the ol' 4-3-2-1 point count with a decent 5 card suit being worth a point, and a few 10s and 9s being worth half a point is just as good as any.

You can't really get any more accurate without peering into your partner's hand to see where you want to be, and even then you may need to peer into your opponents hand. And even then you may need to know what they will lead or how they will defend.
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#20 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 11:25

jdonn, on Mar 2 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

I just want to clarify. Is the view of everyone that this is a non-problem but
Axx
QJxx
Jxxx
xx
would be a bid, or at least a 'problem'?

I would pass both.

At mps, bidding is lunacy unless swinging for tops, with the corollary that one is collecting zeros more often than tops.

This approach does depend, to a modest degree, on your partnership style about invites. Mine is that opener is supposed to accept unless he has a reason not to, while others may choose that he is supposed to decline unless he has a reason not to... the latter school reaches a lot of 2N down 1.. both break even in terms of reaching or missing good/bad games.

Obviously there is more to gain at imps by responding with josh's hand.. but it is (to me) a clear pass even red at imps.

BTW, I really, really don't like the idea of ever downgrading an 18 count into a 15-17 range. If it happened, and we missed game because partner passed a flat soft 7 or 8 count, I know where I would assign the blame.
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