BBO Discussion Forums: Strange 2D response - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Strange 2D response

#1 User is offline   Phil 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,092
  • Joined: 2008-December-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas, USA
  • Interests:Mountain Biking

Posted 2009-February-03, 23:21

A pair at my club plays 1x - 2♦ as EXACTLY 11 points; regardless of shape. Its part of this home-brewed system.

Legal or not?
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
0

#2 User is offline   straube 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,084
  • Joined: 2009-January-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver WA USA

Posted 2009-February-03, 23:25

Not legal under the GCC, but legal under the MidChart
0

#3 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2009-February-04, 08:43

WOW there's another pair here in Belgium playing this! However, it's in an old fashioned strong ♣ system...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#4 User is offline   ASkolnick 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 385
  • Joined: 2007-November-20

Posted 2009-February-04, 08:55

Remember, a club is at its own discretion to allow any conventions they want. I played at a club where it was relatively liberal with conventions.
0

#5 User is offline   rbforster 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,611
  • Joined: 2006-March-18

Posted 2009-February-04, 09:10

Phil, on Feb 4 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

A pair at my club plays 1x - 2♦ as EXACTLY 11 points; regardless of shape. Its part of this home-brewed system.

Legal or not?

If by legal, you mean ACBL GCC, it would only be legal over a 1x opening if:

1x was a strong (15+) opening
1x was 1N with a reasonably narrow range of HCP and generally showing a balanced hand
1x was such that 2♦ initiated a game force (maybe Fantunes very sound 1 level openings)
0

#6 User is offline   blackshoe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,742
  • Joined: 2006-April-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 2009-February-04, 09:47

Whether this is legal depends on where you are, as regulations differ. While as far as I know "everybody" allows clubs to regulate conventions however they like (within the laws), that doesn't mean that it's necessarily true. There may be some NBO or RA that doesn't allow it. :angry:
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
0

#7 User is offline   PrecisionL 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 991
  • Joined: 2004-March-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Knoxville, TN, USA
  • Interests:Diamond LM (7000+ MP)
    God
    Family
    Counseling
    Bridge

Posted 2009-February-04, 10:14

In ACBLand you can play ONE 2/1 response as artificial: Either G.F. or G.I. but not both. The Power System, thus, is not GCC legal. I researched this a few years ago and had e-mail correspondence with ACBL.

Larry
Ultra ♣ Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape Club is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)

Santa Fe Precision ♣ published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail ♣. 2020. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified ♣ (Canape & Relay). 2022: Canary ♣ Modernized, 2023-4: KOK Canape.
0

#8 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,503
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2009-February-04, 10:21

PrecisionL, on Feb 4 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

In ACBLand you can play ONE 2/1 response as artificial: Either G.F. or G.I. but not both. The Power System, thus, is not GCC legal. I researched this a few years ago and had e-mail correspondence with ACBL.

Larry

Say what ????

Let's ignore the restrictions surrounding relay systems for the moment.

I thought that something like the following would be perfectly legal

1♥ - (P) - 2♣ = artificial game force (denies 3+ Spades)
1♥ - (P) - 2♦ = artificial game force (promises 3+ Spades)

As I recall, the regulations permit bids that show game forcing values. I don't recall a limitation on the total number of said bids.

I'd be interested in understanding where this (supposed) restriction comes from.
Alderaan delenda est
0

#9 User is offline   Gerben42 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,577
  • Joined: 2005-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erlangen, Germany
  • Interests:Astronomy, Mathematics
    Nuclear power

Posted 2009-February-04, 10:29

I would prefer the 2♦ response to show the ♦7.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
My Bridge Systems Page

BC Kultcamp Rieneck
0

#10 User is offline   keylime 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: FD TEAM
  • Posts: 2,735
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nashville, TN
  • Interests:Motorsports, cricket, disc golf, and of course - bridge. :-)

  Posted 2009-February-04, 10:40

Hear hear to that Gerben, especially since Larry owes me a beer from Raleigh.
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
0

#11 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2009-February-04, 10:42

Phil, on Feb 4 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

A pair at my club plays 1x - 2♦ as EXACTLY 11 points; regardless of shape. Its part of this home-brewed system.

Legal or not?

Who cares if it's legal, don't call the director. You want them to be playing this against you!
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#12 User is offline   PrecisionL 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 991
  • Joined: 2004-March-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Knoxville, TN, USA
  • Interests:Diamond LM (7000+ MP)
    God
    Family
    Counseling
    Bridge

Posted 2009-February-04, 12:35

hrothgar, on Feb 4 2009, 11:21 AM, said:

PrecisionL, on Feb 4 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

In ACBLand you can play ONE 2/1 response as artificial:  Either G.F. or G.I. but not both.  The Power System, thus, is not GCC legal.  I researched this a few years ago and had e-mail correspondence with ACBL.

Larry

Say what ????

Let's ignore the restrictions surrounding relay systems for the moment.

I thought that something like the following would be perfectly legal

1♥ - (P) - 2♣ = artificial game force (denies 3+ Spades)
1♥ - (P) - 2♦ = artificial game force (promises 3+ Spades)

As I recall, the regulations permit bids that show game forcing values. I don't recall a limitation on the total number of said bids.

I'd be interested in understanding where this (supposed) restriction comes from.

The restriction comes from ACBL when I queried them on playing the Power System by Klinger that has 1M - 2♣ as Artificial and G.I. and 1M - 2♦ as Artificial and G.F.

They replied (from memory) that these Power bids were not GCC as 2/1 bids in a minor must be either GF or GI but not one of each.

I know Jacoby 2NT is also an artificial bid.

I don't know the legality of your treatment showing or denying 3♠.
Ultra ♣ Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape Club is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)

Santa Fe Precision ♣ published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail ♣. 2020. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Weiss Simplified ♣ (Canape & Relay). 2022: Canary ♣ Modernized, 2023-4: KOK Canape.
0

#13 User is offline   ASkolnick 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 385
  • Joined: 2007-November-20

Posted 2009-February-04, 15:31

Actually friends of mine wanted to play the power system as well. I believe what makes it illegal from the GCC is you can only play an artificial 2 over 1 response is game forcing, not one or the other. So, you could not play 1M-2c as invitational.

From GCC:
3. CONVENTIONAL RESPONSES WHICH GUARANTEE GAME FORCING OR BETTER VALUES. May NOT be part of a relay system.
0

#14 User is offline   brianshark 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 895
  • Joined: 2006-May-13
  • Location:Dublin
  • Interests:Artificial Intelligence, Computer Games, Satire, Football, Rugby... and Bridge I suppose.

Posted 2009-February-05, 08:00

So you can't play, for example, 2C as an artificial GF and the other 2 bids as natural and 10+?
The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.
0

#15 User is offline   ASkolnick 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 385
  • Joined: 2007-November-20

Posted 2009-February-05, 09:01

No, that you can play.

You cannot have an artificial invitational only.

1S-2C GF is legal.
1S-2X Inv+ is also legal if 2X is natural.
1S-2C Artificial invitational only is not legal.
0

#16 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,684
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, D18; Chapala, D16

Posted 2009-February-05, 17:33

No, no, Gerben, that doesn't work. You can't make the beer in a (*) diamond contract. All you are doing here is hogging all the non-beerable contracts, and letting partner make two shots at getting to the right strain in the beerable one.

* In the UWaterloo version of this, insert "non-doubled, non-slam" here. Also, of course, defensive beers count - and are especially refreshing when scored in a diamond contract.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0
Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

2 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users