[DrDouble]

I play mostly MP. I have been experimenting with opening 1 or 2NT with 2 doubletons, which I believe is the modern style. Initially it seemed 2 work but now I have me doubts.

Also I have been adding length points. 1 Point 4 a 5 Card suit and 2 points 4 a six card suit on 2 the HCP total when determining opening NT's

I would be interested in people’s view on these issues. I have been playing only a year.

[mtvesuvius]

DrDouble, on Jan 20 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

Also I have been adding length points.  1 Point 4 a 5 Card suit and 2 points 4 a six card suit on 2 the HCP total when determining opening NT's

Why would you add points for length when opening 1NT? Does this mean that:

♠ Ax
♥ xxx
♦ AKxxxx
♣ Qx

is a NT opener?

[Lobowolf]

DrDouble, on Jan 20 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

I play mostly MP.  I have been experimenting with opening 1 or 2NT with 2 doubletons, which I believe is the modern style.  Initially it seemed 2 work but now I have me doubts.

Also I have been adding length points.  1 Point 4 a 5 Card suit and 2 points 4 a six card suit on 2 the HCP total when determining opening NT's

I would be interested in people’s view on these issues.  I have been playing only a year.

IMO Opening 1NT with 2 doubletons is acceptable when it serves a purpose (like solving a problem), but not something to go out of your way to do with any old 5422 hand.

For instance, if I'm 2-4-2-5 (preferably with some stuff in the pointy suits) with a 16-count, I'm going to be happy to open 1NT, because if I open 1♣ and hear 1♠ from partner, I'm not strong enough to reverse into 2♥, 1NT would be a gross overbid, and 2♣ is both an underbid and a distortion.

But if I'm 2-5-4-2 with the same 16 count, I'm going to bid naturally, because opening 1♥ then bidding diamonds is descriptive and doesn't pose inherent bidding problems.

Or to put it another way...it's not a bad idea to think about your second bid (at least) before making your first.

[sireenb]

For off-shape 1NT to work you need to follow the following rules:

1. Do not add length points
2. Do not open with a 6 card Major, a six card minor is OK
3. The doubletons should have honors
4. Do not open with two doubletons in both majors
5. With 5-4, the 5 carder should be a minor

In general, it works best if you open 1NT with hands that have rebid problems, but not if you open 1NT with any hand with the correct range of points and any odd shape

[inquiry]

sireenb, on Jan 20 2009, 09:45 PM, said:

5. With 5-4, the 5 carder should be a minor

+1 on item 5

[jdonn]

sireenb, on Jan 20 2009, 09:45 PM, said:

For off-shape 1NT to work you need to follow the following rules:

1. Do not add length points
2. Do not open with a 6 card Major, a six card minor is OK
3. The doubletons should have honors
4. Do not open with two doubletons in both majors
5. With 5-4, the 5 carder should be a minor

Strongly disagree with 1. and 4.

The others seem fine to me.

[Codo]

Length points are great, use them when the suit is strong enough.
Open 1 NT when you have high honours in the short suits.

I learned too that you should not open 1 NT with two doubeltons in the majors. The idea is that partner with a 5/5 major two suiter must be sure to have a fit. The idea is nice, but in practice this "never" happens, so in practice this rule is wrong.

[DrDouble]

I should of said initially I don't open 1NT with a 5 card major. Thanks 4 the input so far.

[skjaeran]

mtvesuvius, on Jan 21 2009, 03:31 AM, said:

DrDouble, on Jan 20 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

Also I have been adding length points.  1 Point 4 a 5 Card suit and 2 points 4 a six card suit on 2 the HCP total when determining opening NT's

Why would you add points for length when opening 1NT? Does this mean that:

♠ Ax
♥ xx
♦ AKxxxx
♣ Qx

is a NT opener?

I never make a call with 12 cards only....

[sireenb]

jdonn, on Jan 20 2009, 10:50 PM, said:

sireenb, on Jan 20 2009, 09:45 PM, said:

For off-shape 1NT to work you need to follow the following rules:

1. Do not add length points
4. Do not open with two doubletons in both majors
.

Strongly disagree with 1. and 4.

The others seem fine to me.

Good points )) I was simplifying this for somebody who has been playing for 1 year.

The reason I added 1 is that it is a matter of upgrading some hands, not adding distribution points without judgement.

The reason I added 4 is to avoid silly choice of major contracts such as: 2NT-3H-3S-4H. I thought it would be easier to have one set of guidelines for both NT ranges.
Whether to open 1NT with two doubleton majors depends on Stayman style. People who play 1NT-2C-2D-2H as weak to pass or correct cannot open 1NT with that distribution otherwise it can be very effective.

[kenrexford]

skaeran, on Jan 21 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

mtvesuvius, on Jan 21 2009, 03:31 AM, said:

DrDouble, on Jan 20 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

Also I have been adding length points.  1 Point 4 a 5 Card suit and 2 points 4 a six card suit on 2 the HCP total when determining opening NT's

Why would you add points for length when opening 1NT? Does this mean that:

♠ Ax
♥ xx
♦ AKxxxx
♣ Qx

is a NT opener?

I never make a call with 12 cards only....

If I am dealt these 12 cards, I open 1NT. The missing 13th card cannot hurt. Plus, partner will know that I have a super-adjusted minimum, because the discovery of an Ace as the missing card will not knock me out of the range.

[mtvesuvius]

I edited it now... But opening that 13 count 1NT cannot be good in the long run...

btw I have posted more 12 card hands than anyone else, I would imagine... My "x" key doesn't work

[jdonn]

mtvesuvius, on Jan 21 2009, 06:00 PM, said:

I edited it now... But opening that 13 count 1NT cannot be good in the long run...

Make sure you send that memo to clee.

[rogerclee]

jdonn, on Jan 21 2009, 04:41 PM, said:

mtvesuvius, on Jan 21 2009, 06:00 PM, said:

I edited it now... But opening that 13 count 1NT cannot be good in the long run...

Make sure you send that memo to clee.

nonvulnerable? obviously

[Elianna]

jdonn, on Jan 21 2009, 03:41 PM, said:

mtvesuvius, on Jan 21 2009, 06:00 PM, said:

I edited it now... But opening that 13 count 1NT cannot be good in the long run...

Make sure you send that memo to clee.

And Jeff Goldsmith

[DrDouble]

skaeran, on Jan 21 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

mtvesuvius, on Jan 21 2009, 03:31 AM, said:

DrDouble, on Jan 20 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

Also I have been adding length points.  1 Point 4 a 5 Card suit and 2 points 4 a six card suit on 2 the HCP total when determining opening NT's

Why would you add points for length when opening 1NT? Does this mean that:

♠ Ax
♥ xx
♦ AKxxxx
♣ Qx

is a NT opener?

I never make a call with 12 cards only....

No I would not open with your 12 Card Hand. The HCP score of the doubleton Queen would be downgraded to 1 as an unprotected honour making 12HCP + 2 Length points making a total of 14.

The six card diamond suit would be useful if partner had support in that suit.

I was also taught to down grade the HCP's of unprotected honours.