[mike777]

I am confused. In an ACBL tourney I am asked by the opp to explain a bid. I tell them no alert standard double.

Dir. says tell them what your bid means, I say standard double, no alert.....


1H=P=2D=(2S)
X

This is an honest question what am I suppose to say?

[Elianna]

You could be more specific as to what you mean by "standard". I'm assuming you mean takeout, so you could have said that. Or to be more even more specific, you could say "short spades, takeout"

I think that the thing is, it's not clear if standard means takeout (and therefore short spades), penalty (so you have spades) or support (says nothing about spades). And they were asking for clarification between the three.

I hope you see how "standard" could still cover the penalty or takeout options.

[glen]

Agree with Elianna - there is not really anything standard in bridge, so saying "standard" doesn't disclose - instead simply describe the bid without using the word standard

[mike777]

ok what I hear so far is my x is not standard.....it can mean takeout or penalty or other

I must admit I had no idea...I thought in ACBL world it is penalty 101% with no alert.

It seems that I must tell opp what my standard bridge bid means exactly....in this case penalty...not takeout not other.......

[jdonn]

mike777, on Jan 1 2009, 09:16 PM, said:

It seems that I must tell opp what my standard bridge bid means exactly....in this case penalty...not takeout not other.......

Yup.

[Echognome]

"Standard" is not a very useful adjective to describe any call. Why not just say what it means? What if the opponents are used to a different "standard"? Maybe they come from a different country or maybe they are beginners and have not learned "standard". What difference does it make?

[Codo]

I really hate hate hate it, when someone explains a bid as standard. I do not even know whether there is a world wide standard nor what this standard may be. When you play in an ACBL event, the standards may be easier to find, but still:

When someone is 101 % sure that this double is penalty, why did he not say: penalty?

[Cascade]

Its not very hard ...

they ask...

you answer.

Try your best to be helpful.

[blackshoe]

When the opponents ask the meaning of your call (online - your partner's offline) you are obligated to give a full and complete (as best you can) explanation of its meaning. Naming a convention, or calling it "standard", does not do that, and is unfair to opponents. As Wayne says, try your best to be helpful.

Most doubles are not alertable in the acbl anyway - which means you can't rely on the lack of an alert to tell you what it means.

[Tola18]

Cascade, on Jan 2 2009, 01:23 AM, said:

Its not very hard ...

they ask...

you answer.

Try your best to be helpful.

Yeah.

And by giving a de facto nonsense answer you are making a de facto psych as you probably are turning them off balance. Like boxers usually try to do immediately before the fight starts...

I understand you didnt mean that, but this was probably the result.

[helene_t]

It's like asking what kind of discards opps play and the hear that they play "natural" discards. I have even heard about "natural" leads. No idea what it means.

On the other hand, it is quite possible that you have no specific agreement about this dbl and then you can say "no agreement".

[Cascade]

Tola18, on Jan 4 2009, 06:54 AM, said:

Cascade, on Jan 2 2009, 01:23 AM, said:

Its not very hard ...

they ask...

you answer.

Try your best to be helpful.

Yeah.

And by giving a de facto nonsense answer you are making a de facto psych as you probably are turning them off balance. Like boxers usually try to do immediately before the fight starts...

I understand you didnt mean that, but this was probably the result.

I have no idea what you are talking about. How would I be "turning them off balance" by answering their question.

The procedure is as simple as answering an opponent's questions as clearly as possible.

The ACBL alert procedures put it succintly with "Bridge is not a game of secret messages".

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

similar useles are explanations involving the
word "natural" as description, and just telling
the name.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[barmar]

Cascade, on Jan 3 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

Tola18, on Jan 4 2009, 06:54 AM, said:

Cascade, on Jan 2 2009, 01:23 AM, said:

Its not very hard ...

they ask...

you answer.

Try your best to be helpful.

Yeah.

And by giving a de facto nonsense answer you are making a de facto psych as you probably are turning them off balance. Like boxers usually try to do immediately before the fight starts...

I understand you didnt mean that, but this was probably the result.

I have no idea what you are talking about. How would I be "turning them off balance" by answering their question.

I think he was referring to the OP, who repeatedly gave the same useless answer. An answer like "standard" suggests that the opponent doesn't know how to play and the question was foolish. The implied insult to their intelligence can certainly unnerve someone.

[Tola18]

Cascade, on Jan 3 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

I have no idea what you are talking about.  How would I be "turning them off balance" by answering their question.

The procedure is as simple as answering an opponent's questions as clearly as possible.

The ACBL alert procedures put it succintly with "Bridge is not a game of secret messages".

Come an. All the others said that answer "standard" was more or less meaningsless.
Thus it wasnt clear or helpful.

And repeated - I say seemed clearly provoking.



Although as I already said, I understand here wasnt no purpose to be provoking. Only thoughless.




Ps. Cascade, I see you have perhaps lost "the thread here"? Easy, Im not wandering off although my english isnt native, we are talking whole time about the question in this thread...

[vang]

mike777, on Jan 2 2009, 04:16 AM, said:

ok what I hear so far is my x is not standard.....it can mean takeout or penalty or other

I must admit I had no idea...I thought in ACBL world it is penalty 101% with no alert.

It seems that I must tell opp what my standard bridge bid means exactly....in this case penalty...not takeout not other.......

if your double is penalty (by agreement), why not just answer "PENALTY" and avoid all those gimmicks on what is standard and what not...

[barmar]

Tola18, on Jan 3 2009, 05:16 PM, said:

Cascade, on Jan 3 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

I have no idea what you are talking about.  How would I be "turning them off balance" by answering their question.

The procedure is as simple as answering an opponent's questions as clearly as possible.

The ACBL alert procedures put it succintly with "Bridge is not a game of secret messages".

Come an. All the others said that answer "standard" was more or less meaningsless.
Thus it wasnt clear or helpful.

And repeated - I say seemed clearly provoking.



Although as I already said, I understand here wasnt no purpose to be provoking. Only thoughless.

I think the reason Cascade was confused by your response is because he wasn't condoning the meaningless answers. I think he was agreeing with everyone else when he said "Try your best to be helpful."

[Cascade]

barmar, on Jan 4 2009, 11:20 AM, said:

Tola18, on Jan 3 2009, 05:16 PM, said:

Cascade, on Jan 3 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

I have no idea what you are talking about.  How would I be "turning them off balance" by answering their question.

The procedure is as simple as answering an opponent's questions as clearly as possible.

The ACBL alert procedures put it succintly with "Bridge is not a game of secret messages".

Come an. All the others said that answer "standard" was more or less meaningsless.
Thus it wasnt clear or helpful.

And repeated - I say seemed clearly provoking.



Although as I already said, I understand here wasnt no purpose to be provoking. Only thoughless.

I think the reason Cascade was confused by your response is because he wasn't condoning the meaningless answers. I think he was agreeing with everyone else when he said "Try your best to be helpful."

Indeed.

Online (or possibly it is a bridge cultural thing in some parts of the world, particularly in ACBL BBO tournaments) there seem to be a significant minority who think that because they play what they think is more or less standard then there is no need to explain their bids when asked.

That view is wrong. I am not sure if this is an "online" thing or a cultural thing in some jurisdictions. Certainly when issues like this occur face to face in my experience they are usually simpler to sort out than the lack of response that can occur online.

The game will be much more pleasant if when asked a simple question you give a simple descriptive answer.

[helene_t]

Cascade, on Jan 3 2009, 11:38 PM, said:

Online (or possibly it is a bridge cultural thing in some parts of the world, particularly in ACBL BBO tournaments) there seem to be a significant minority who think that because they play what they think is more or less standard then there is no need to explain their bids when asked.

This is very common in the Netherlands, too. Probably everywhere.

The alert procedure says you are not supposed to teach the opponents general bridge knowledge. I am sure experts know where to draw the line. But mere mortals find it difficult to distinguish between
- general bridge knowledge
- what happens to be standard in our coffeehouse but may be non-standard elsewhere

[babalu1997]

Codo, on Jan 1 2009, 09:53 PM, said:

I really hate hate hate it, when someone explains a bid as standard. I do not even know whether there is a world wide standard nor what this standard may be. When you play in an ACBL event, the standards may be easier to find, but still:

When someone is 101 % sure that this double is penalty, why did he not say: penalty?

My partner says that there is only one standard:

The Standard Deviation


But the best explanation of a bid is:

CUEBID!!!