[matmat]

bid these two hands within a standardish 2/1.

Scoring: XIMP

West comes in with 2♠
after an initial pass if possible.

---

[skjaeran]

(p) 1♣ (p) 2♣ (GF)
(2♠) 2NT (p) 3NT
all pass

Going down unless spades are divided Axxxxx-Jx (or east finds another suit to lead). I'd not find 5♣.

[mr1303]

P 1C P 2C (forcing, not GF though)
2S P P 3S
P 3NT

Similar to me, except holding the North cards I'm passing over 2S as North with my heap.

[gwnn]

p-p-p-1NT
2♠-x-p-3♣
p-3NT-end

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

one possible option

(Pass) - 1T ...... - (Pass) - 2T (1)
(2P) - Pass (2)- (Pass) - X..(3)
(Pass) - Pass (4)- (Pass)

(1) inv. minors, inv.+
(2) forcing, having a bal. hand with min, there
is lots to be said for making a pen. X
(3) Pen. X, given the vulnerability not clear, but
you take the money, and the delayed 2S may
be based on a weak suit, 4 hearts

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cascade]

I am not completely sure how the auction would go but I am very tempted to pass this ace-less collection vulnerable second seat.

After

(Pass) Pass (Pass) 1♣
(2♠) ?

I am not sure now - I am still an ace-less very soft hand and additionally now I have only one spade stopper.

I usually play 2NT as artificial on that sequence showing a club raise (which has the unfortunate consequence of occasionally wrong siding NT contracts but that is not relevant here).

I suppose I would show an invitational club raise if possible. Otherwise, if that was not available I might be forced to bid a natural 2NT. Partner will probably push to game with a little extra and sharp cards with a five-card suit.

[mike777]

matmat, on Nov 30 2008, 02:11 AM, said:

bid these two hands within a standardish 2/1.

Scoring: XIMP

West comes in with 2♠
after an initial pass if possible.

---

p=1c=p=2d!(game force in clubs)
(2s)=p=p=3d(very often just showing a stopper)
p=(3h or 3nt)=p= pass or 5c(if 3nt by partner then pass if 3h then now 5c)

[han]

Wow to passing a 12-count with 3 tens!!!!

After 1C - 2C - (2S) I think 2NT is not right, north should allow for his partner to double 2S and a delayed notrump bid won't make the spade stopper sound like more than it is.

I'd also get to 3NT.

[andy_h]

Agree with Han - passing allows the opponents leeway as then the 3rd seat gets the first chance to speak at favourable!
My auction would be the same as mr1303's.

[Codo]

I agree with Wayne that the North hand is a bad 12 count. But I cannot bring

The bidding would be
(pass) 1 ♣ (pass) 2♣ (GF)
(2♠) pass (pass) (3 ♠)
pass 3 NT all pass

[655321]

I find some of these suggestions pretty odd. Passing the North hand, or bidding an immediate 2NT over 2♠ having opened, or making penalty doubles of 2♠ are all very strange decisions to me.

But having said that, I would have the same unsuccessful auction several people have mentioned:

P 1♣ P 2♣
2♠ P P 3♠
P 3NT

[P_Marlowe]

655321, on Dec 1 2008, 05:02 AM, said:

I find some of these suggestions pretty odd. Passing the North hand, or bidding an immediate 2NT over 2♠ having opened, or making penalty doubles of 2♠ are all very strange decisions to me.
<snip>

Why, do you find it strange to go for a penalty of 2S?
I agree, that one may or may not go for a penalty, given
that we are red. vs. green, but at any other vulnerability I
think it is clear cut.

Since 2S will surely go down at least 2 and sometimes 3, at
least most of the time, the game you bid, should have
slightly better chances of making, than without the add.
offered option.

You have xxx in spades, assume for a second, that partner
has no real stopper, how happy will you feel playing 4C or 5C-1?
And if he has a stopper, how high are the chances that you have
9 running tricks after they attacked spades?
The delayed 2S may well be based on a hand, which has a
side entry.

And if we assume, that 2S goes down -2 most of the time, going
for a penalty is a 50-50 bet.
And I doubt that game will be better than 50% most of the time.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Gerben42]

Reaching 5♣ is not really possible. That's what you want to hear, right?

[matmat]

Gerben42, on Dec 1 2008, 06:37 AM, said:

Reaching 5♣ is not really possible. That's what you want to hear, right?

No.

I was actually more curious as to the immediate action taken by the North hand and then the followups by south. At the table I felt that an immediate 2N was a little too much, but that is what was bid. South raised to 3, leading to what i think is a fairly normal contract off one.

I think making a nebulous penalty double that hardly anyone plays as penalty without discussion and then passing holding KQ tight is next to ridiculous.

[han]

Oh I thought almost everybody played that double as penalty. Shows what I know.

[P_Marlowe]

matmat, on Dec 1 2008, 01:10 PM, said:

<snip>
I think making a nebulous penalty double that hardly anyone plays as penalty without discussion and then passing holding KQ tight is next to ridiculous.

... that double is penalty is not a obscure agreement, it
followes from standard forcing pass rules.
And for a penalty double after partner made a forcing
pass a xxx holding in their suit is basically enough.

And that pass by opener after 2S is forcing, is also common,
since 2C forced the partnership to play 2NT or 3C.

So: not playing double as penalty would be obscure.

And given the vulnerability, you may go for game, ...
or not.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jdonn]

Of course it's a penalty double. And of course it's ridiculous to say south would double with Txx of spades and extra club length.

[cherdano]

I agree with everything 655321 said.

[benlessard]

1C-----2D(limit +)---------(2S)
P-------X (penalty)
2Nt------3Nt

X by responder is automatic. extra strength and Txx in spades with balance shape is perfect for the bid. North is close to pass but will chicken out at 2Nt (in mp passing is not unreasonnable)

[matmat]

jdonn, on Dec 1 2008, 01:46 PM, said:

Of course it's a penalty double.

yeah. ok. so i'm dumb