[Quarky]

1st ever board playing with this partner, std 2/1. Team BAMs

Your hand as W:

42
AJ10754
43
AKQ

none vuln, LHO opens pass, bidding goes:

pass - pass - 1♠ - 2♥
4♠ - 5♦ - DBL -?

How do you interpret partner's 5♦ call and how do you proceed?

[maggieb]

lead directing with hearts obviously

[the hog]

Agree with the above. I bid 5H now. Pass would be invitational to 6.

[Quarky]

ALright, i bid 5H also, went for -3 dbled, found pard with

x
x
QJ10xxxx
Jxxx

He complained "do you want to play 6D?"

[maggieb]

I'm noticing two common themes in all your posts.

[matmat]

maggieb, on Nov 26 2008, 01:04 AM, said:

I'm noticing two common themes in all your posts.

well, the partnership returns and exchanges desk is closed.

[Quarky]

Don't get me wrong, posting here is not my way of releasing frustration and saying "my pard sucks." Bidding is my weakest spot, as I only know it from some reading and what I learned online (dont play face-to-face), so when these kind of situations arise, I don't know what the right understanding is and so ask here. I only know the familiar situations like uninterrupted low-level auctions.

Besides, a few of my posts are to discuss actions that "world class" players i played with on BBO disagree with (not saying they're wrong, could be a matter of style, but I can't trust just a single player labeled "WC," i want more opinions here).

[awm]

I would've passed here. If they pass 5♦ (instead of double) then it is a harder problem.

Of course it makes some sense for 5♦ to show diamonds and hearts, but would I assume this opposite an unknown partner? I don't think that's reasonable. The double saves me from guessing. If partner has diamonds plus hearts he will clarify by bidding 5♥ himself. Otherwise we can play 5♦X. Sometimes you need to take a "safety play in the bidding" especially when you and partner are not on firm ground.

[Codo]

I doubt that any sane partner will pass first and later introduce their suit at the 5. level with the hand your partner had.
But Adam is right: Use the safety play and pass. Pd will clarify with pass or 5 Heart what he meant.

In theory this may show slam interesst but in your real life, don't care too much about that.

[Quarky]

awm, on Nov 26 2008, 02:49 AM, said:

I would've passed here. If they pass 5♦ (instead of double) then it is a harder problem.

Of course it makes some sense for 5♦ to show diamonds and hearts, but would I assume this opposite an unknown partner? I don't think that's reasonable. The double saves me from guessing. If partner has diamonds plus hearts he will clarify by bidding 5♥ himself. Otherwise we can play 5♦X. Sometimes you need to take a "safety play in the bidding" especially when you and partner are not on firm ground.

Hmm, well my thoughts start with the same foundation but going in a completely opposite direction.

My thought was that since we had never played before, partner's 5♦ bid is not a diamond suit with no support for my hearts. Since he chose to take such action after passing initially and without much knowledge of what my overcall hand is like, i am sure he has support for my hearts and bid 5D simply as lead-directing in the event of 5S by opps or to offer me to play 5D with something like 3 hts and 6 diamonds in his hand. If it's the latter, then I am afraid to pass 5D-X, as pard might think "ok, sounds like he prefers our diamond fit, so lets play there" when in reality i prefer the heart fit (which i was expecting from pard).

[ochinko]

As Adam said, Pass is easy after the double. There is nothing to add to the 2♥ bid regarding strength or distribution. 5♥ is unilateral, and I don't see why it would show a weaker hand than Pass unless you have a specific agreement about that.

There's an old saying: "When in doubt, treat the bid as natural and forcing". Since the double takes out the force, and my hand is well described, I don't hesitate to pass.

[the hog]

"There's an old saying: "When in doubt, treat the bid as natural and forcing". Since the double takes out the force, and my hand is well described, I don't hesitate to pass."

The double does not take out the force in my book Ochinko, it offers you the alternative of making a slam try by passing. eg
4
AJ10754
Kxx
AKQ

[awm]

It just seems weird to me to assume that:

(1) When partner bids a suit, it actually shows support for some completely different suit.
(2) Passing is stronger than bidding and shows a slam try.

I'm not arguing with any of this stuff as an agreement. But this is a partner where you have not discussed this stuff at all, and you are making these assumptions?

[RichMor]

The_Hog, on Nov 26 2008, 04:39 AM, said:

"There's an old saying: "When in doubt, treat the bid as natural and forcing". Since the double takes out the force, and my hand is well described, I don't hesitate to pass."

The double does not take out the force in my book Ochinko, it offers you the alternative of making a slam try by passing. eg
4
AJ10754
Kxx
AKQ

There is an alternate version that goes like this:

1. Undiscussed bids are assumed to be as natural as possible
2. In a constructive auction (we made the last bid) it is forcing
3. In a competetive auction (they made the last bid) it is non forcing

This version implies that 5♦ over the opps 4♠ is natural and non forcing. Of course we also add some common sense. Bidding a new suit at the 5 level doesn't make sense without some fit for partner's suit.

So I would take the 5♦ call as natural, non forcing, and showing Heart tolerance.

[P_Marlowe]

Quarky, on Nov 26 2008, 12:56 AM, said:

ALright, i bid 5H also, went for -3 dbled, found pard with

x
x
QJ10xxxx
Jxxx

He complained "do you want to play 6D?"

My first counter question would be: Why did you not open ?D ?

Regarding your original question: If you are unsure, what partners
5D bid means, you can pass 5D.
You should do this, if the bid was not Xed, but you can do it now
as well, although it is dangerous, because it is possible, that pass
showes diamonds tolerance.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Codo]

I would never dream of passing 5 Diamond when they had not doubled and I doubt that passing is winning bridge.

For which hand do you expect a positive result from 5 Diamond from a passed hand with no heart fit?
This must be some lead directing stuff with a good heart fit.

With an unpassed partner and undisccussed it is far from clear what 5 Diamond should show, but in the given scenario....