[Lobowolf]

The speculation is over, as Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama announced that his running mate is Delaware's Joe Biden. Biden in turn announced that he would fully explain how and why the plagiarism hype that has occasionally since the 80's is completely overblown, in his forthcoming autobiography "The Audacity of Hope."


Speaking of plagiarism...that little paragraph comes almost verbatim from Scott Cram, whom I know through another (non-bridge) online forum; I just thought it was funny enough for a repeat.

On a more serious note...thoughts on Biden as a VP choice? I thought it was a good call, particularly from an electability standpoint. Probably a no-brainer after the Russia/Georgia thing, given the Foreign Relations Committee experience, but also a good fit in other respects. In Master Solvers Club terms, I think it's an easy top choice and would get a lot of "WTP?" responses.

[Apollo81]

If VA goes Republican and Obama loses because of that, the political result merchants out there will say he should have picked Tim Kaine.

[cherdano]

Clearly it was TMFA.

[Al_U_Card]

I gather they may be trying to exploit the "juxtaposition" effect.

Obama's carefully chosen verbiage and rhetoric vs. Biden's extemporaneous foot-in-mouth penchant.

[jtfanclub]

Al_U_Card, on Aug 25 2008, 02:47 PM, said:

I gather they may be trying to exploit the "juxtaposition" effect.

Obama's carefully chosen verbiage and rhetoric vs. Biden's extemporaneous foot-in-mouth penchant.

That's true, Biden would make most speechifyers look good. Biden has great one liners, but he's speeches are terrible. And long. Really freakin' long.

But how could you not love Biden? Born in Hawaii, the son of a Kansas girl and a Kenyan exchange student, graduated Cum Laude, chosen as editor of the Harvard Law Review....

[USViking]

Apollo81 said:

If VA goes Republican and Obama loses because of that, the political result merchants out there will say he should have picked Tim Kaine. 

I said exactly that on a political board last week
before Biden's selection was made public.

Biden is a run of the mill liberal Democrat from
a safely Democratic state. There is no chance
that he will win over enough undecided voters
to deliver any tossup state for the Democrats.

He may also be an outright liability due to his mouth.

In a strained supporting editorial David Brooks
of the NYT used the words ""idiotic" and "infamous"
to describe Biden's rhetorical history. Just what you
need in a VP candidate, huh? Talk about faint praise.

Virginia has been in a dead heat for months
according to the polls. Kaine is a popular governor
(57% approval rating including 49% among
Republicans). If the Republicans win Virginia
by under a 2% margin then I think it would be
reasonable to assume the results would have
been different had Kaine been on the ticket.

A moderate such as Kaine might also be a threat
elsewhere the break the near stranglehold
of the Republicans in the South. Not this year!

[JoAnneM]

I haven't heard much from Biden yet, but Michelle hit a homerun tonight, and Ted Kennedy was the best way possible to kick off the convention.

[kenberg]

I'm fine with Biden on the ticket. I have read that Biden and McCain like and respect each other. They could do themselves and the country a favor by keeping that in mind as the campaign moves on. Probably too much too ask.

[PassedOut]

JoAnneM, on Aug 26 2008, 12:49 AM, said:

I haven't heard much from Biden yet, but Michelle hit a homerun tonight, and Ted Kennedy was the best way possible to kick off the convention.

It was also nice to see Caroline Kennedy speak, and it was really fun to see the Obama daughters on the stage after Michelle's speech.

For me, Jim Leach's speech was right on the mark. The republicans have long abandoned the principles that drew me to the party originally: fiscal discipline, a responsible foreign policy, personal freedom, and conservation of the earth.

I started watching on CNN, but quickly switched to C-SPAN to avoid the cacophony of blather and commercials and Wolf Blitzer's constant repetition of "the best political team on television." In comparison, the C-SPAN coverage was a joy to watch.

[luke warm]

kenberg, on Aug 26 2008, 07:53 AM, said:

I'm fine with Biden on the ticket. I have read that Biden and McCain like and respect each other. They could do themselves and the country a favor by keeping that in mind as the campaign moves on. Probably too much too ask.

given that biden said mccain would be a better president than obamba, and that he thought kerry should have picked mccain as VP in '80, i'd say they like one another

[Lobowolf]

luke warm, on Aug 26 2008, 05:18 PM, said:

kenberg, on Aug 26 2008, 07:53 AM, said:

I'm fine with Biden on the ticket. I have read that Biden and McCain like and respect each other. They could do themselves and the country a favor by keeping that in mind as the campaign moves on. Probably too much too ask.

given that biden said mccain would be a better president than obamba, and that he thought kerry should have picked mccain as VP in '80, i'd say they like one another

Don't expect that to last...some sharp about-faces coming up all around.

[Lobowolf]

PassedOut, on Aug 26 2008, 09:36 AM, said:

For me, Jim Leach's speech was right on the mark. The republicans have long abandoned the principles that drew me to the party originally

Funny...that's what's happened to me with the Democrats. I've been a "decline to state" for about 4 years now.

[jdonn]

I think Biden is an excellent choice. His state is not needed, but he has roots in Pennsylvania which is arguably the most important state. He appeals to large blocs that haven't been swarming to Obama, in particular the so called 'working class' voters. And perhaps most importantly of all is he can assuage concerns of people who think Obama doesn't have enough experience (particularly in foreign policy), while not changing anything about him that the people who liked him already liked (change blah blah blah).

I think Kaine would have been a particularly awful choice. So he is from Virginia, great. Is there a single other positive reason to pick him? All the other names being floated around were at least fine except Hillary of course. Probably my first choice would have been Nunn, who brings the experience especially in foreign policy, an important state that Obama has a good shot to win (Barrrrrrrr), and despite having experience hasn't been around butchering the country for the last 8 years.

[mike777]

I mentioned this before I just do not think people vote for VP rather than who is at the top of the ticket. Perhaps 40 or 80 years ago they did but not now. A VP selection can hurt but I have grave doubts it will turn a losing candidate into a winning one.

If Obama carries Penn. I firmly believe it will be because they think he will make a better leader than McCain not because Biden was born in Scranton Penn 65 years ago. Keep in mind Biden's great foreign policy judgement made him vote for War in Iraq, Obama's judgement told him to be against the war.

[PassedOut]

Lobowolf, on Aug 26 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

PassedOut, on Aug 26 2008, 09:36 AM, said:

For me, Jim Leach's speech was right on the mark. The republicans have long abandoned the principles that drew me to the party originally

Funny...that's what's happened to me with the Democrats. I've been a "decline to state" for about 4 years now.

That's certainly your right.

If your personal beliefs favor an irresponsible foreign policy, governmental interference in personal lives, polluting the earth, and stealing from our children and grandchildren, then you should definitely vote republican.

As for me, I considered myself a republican when the party advanced the opposite of those policies.

[jtfanclub]

I wanted Kathleen Sebelius to be Obama's veep.

Then I heard her talk today. OMG she's boring. I should have taped it in case I get insomnia. I like Biden better now.

No question in my mind, Mark Warner will be the 'party line' candidate in 2012 if Obama loses. Hillary shouldn't even bother trying to run.

[Lobowolf]

PassedOut, on Aug 26 2008, 08:27 PM, said:

Lobowolf, on Aug 26 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

PassedOut, on Aug 26 2008, 09:36 AM, said:

For me, Jim Leach's speech was right on the mark. The republicans have long abandoned the principles that drew me to the party originally

Funny...that's what's happened to me with the Democrats. I've been a "decline to state" for about 4 years now.

That's certainly your right.

If your personal beliefs favor an irresponsible foreign policy, governmental interference in personal lives, polluting the earth, and stealing from our children and grandchildren, then you should definitely vote republican.

As for me, I considered myself a republican when the party advanced the opposite of those policies.

If your personal beliefs favor taking land from individuals and giving it to wealthy land developers, or ensuring that medical marijuana is illegal regardless of what a given state has to say about it, by all means vote Democrat. I also found the choice to make Al Sharpton a featured speaker at the 2004 DNC particularly disturbing and embarrassing, when I was a Democrat (though I did find amusing that the party chose a guy who had been found liable for slander to be the guy to talk about Bush's credibility).

As a Californian, the VAST majority of "interference with the personal lives" of most people I know comes from the left, not the right, in the form of high taxes and the nanny state, whether it's helmets, seat belts, cell phones, smoking, trans fats, and more.

I have numerous compaints about the right, too, but the left does a very poor job of distinguishing itself from the right on many of those issues (e.g. Clinton's signing of the Defense of Marriage Act, and almost-unilateral softness on illegal immigration).

[mike777]

Wow Hillary's speech just seem to say I support Obama because he is a Democrat and not Bush.....I think she said that ten times....rather luke warm.......

She did not say Obama is great because reasons one thru ten.......

Of course if you think McCain is a congenital liar and unbalanced it does not matter.
Of course if you think the Republican party could care less about the poor and the environment/destroying the earth or our civil rights it does not matter.

[PassedOut]

Lobowolf, on Aug 26 2008, 08:58 PM, said:

If your personal beliefs favor taking land from individuals and giving it to wealthy land developers, or ensuring that medical marijuana is illegal regardless of what a given state has to say about it, by all means vote Democrat. I also found the choice to make Al Sharpton a featured speaker at the 2004 DNC particularly disturbing and embarrassing, when I was a Democrat (though I did find amusing that the party chose a guy who had been found liable for slander to be the guy to talk about Bush's credibility).

As a Californian, the VAST majority of "interference with the personal lives" of most people I know comes from the left, not the right, in the form of high taxes and the nanny state, whether it's helmets, seat belts, cell phones, smoking, trans fats, and more.

I have numerous compaints about the right, too, but the left does a very poor job of distinguishing itself from the right on many of those issues (e.g. Clinton's signing of the Defense of Marriage Act, and almost-unilateral softness on illegal immigration).

Okay, I tend to agree with you on most of the issues you raised. I wish you had been clear about that in your first response.

To me, the bigger issues are the ones I mentioned, and they drive my vote these days. Thanks for clarifying your position.

[jtfanclub]

mike777, on Aug 26 2008, 10:14 PM, said:

Wow Hillary's speech just seem to say I support Obama because he is a Democrat and not Bush.....I think she said that ten times....rather luke warm

Actually, it was more I support Obama because McCain would be a nightmare. What was her line, "No way, no how, no McCain"? She ripped McCain up one side and down the other. At one point, she said McCain wouldn't be another Bush...he's be worse.

If you want reasons to vote for Obama, you got way too many hours of them yesterday, and you'll get more on Thursday and Friday. If you were a Democrat who supported Hillary but were unconvinced because you didn't like Obama's church, or his inexperience, or his friends from 20 years ago, this speech was for you. She said that to claim to support her and then to not vote for Obama would be a betrayal of her, and a betrayal of her 25 years of work.

And if that speech didn't convince you, nothing will.