[OleBerg]

Assume you don't want to use double as penalty for some strong nt-ranges, what should it then be used for?

If it matters, the rest of the defence vs nt is this:

2♣: Both majors.
2♦: Strong one-suited Major. (Normally 6-cards, but can be 5, and a 5-card minor.)
2♥/2♠: A weak hand with the suit.

My own inclination would be 5+♦'s and excactly 4♠'s. The range I'm not so certain about.

[shevek]

Raptor, 4M & 5m. fits well enough with Cappelletti or multi style plugging that hole.

then 2♣ = p/c, 2♦ = bid your major.

Don't like the rest of your method much.

[OleBerg]

shevek, on Aug 21 2008, 10:51 AM, said:

Raptor, 4M & 5m. fits well enough with Cappelletti or multi style plugging that hole.

then 2♣ = p/c, 2♦ = bid your major.

Don't like the rest of your method much.

Well, it is constructed to handle weak nt-ranges, which are thick on the ground in Denmark. It is really good to be able to differentiate betweem weak and strong major hands, when you face a weak nt.

If you reverse the 2♦ bid with the2♥/2♠ bids, you have the "standard-defence" among danish top-level players.

I like it vs strong nt-ranges too, but persuade me to change it!

Why is Raptor good? (Honest question.)

[shevek]

OleBerg, on Aug 21 2008, 04:31 AM, said:

shevek, on Aug 21 2008, 10:51 AM, said:

Raptor, 4M & 5m. fits well enough with Cappelletti or multi style plugging that hole.

then 2♣ = p/c, 2♦ = bid your major.

Don't like the rest of your method much.

Well, it is constructed to handle weak nt-ranges, which are thick on the ground in Denmark. It is really good to be able to differentiate betweem weak and strong major hands, when you face a weak nt.

If you reverse the 2♦ bid with the2♥/2♠ bids, you have the "standard-defence" among danish top-level players.

I like it vs strong nt-ranges too, but persuade me to change it!

Why is Raptor good? (Honest question.)

Raptor fits with Cappelletti & Multi style, common in Australia:

X = 4M & 5m, then 2♣ is p/c, 2♦ = "bid your major"
2♣ = majors, then 2♦ says "bid your longer"
2♦ = straight multi (6cM) with same responses as 2♦ opening for simplicity
2♥/♠ = 5cM & 4+m, Cappelletti/Muiderberg style.

People chose this for symmetry. That's what their 2♦/♥/♠ openings show.

The Raptor double meshes well because you have a way to show 4M/5m & 5M/4m.

[brianshark]

Seriously, play double as penalties.

If you lost a bet and have to play without a penalty double over 1NT, then why don't you use it as a single-suited minor, since you don't seem to have a way to bid them?

[OleBerg]

Arguments please, gentlemen.

I am trying to figure out whats best.

[vang]

strong one suited minor. if partner wish, can easily convert to penalty.

[FrancesHinden]

OleBerg, on Aug 21 2008, 11:58 AM, said:

Arguments please, gentlemen.

I am trying to figure out whats best.

Assume you don't want my reply then.

[OleBerg]

FrancesHinden, on Aug 21 2008, 01:47 PM, said:

OleBerg, on Aug 21 2008, 11:58 AM, said:

Arguments please, gentlemen.

I am trying to figure out whats best.

Assume you don't want my reply then.

Cant tell, but if it's somthing like:

"Convention X is best, all the experts play it."

It's ok not to reply.

[shevek]

OleBerg, on Aug 21 2008, 07:11 AM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Aug 21 2008, 01:47 PM, said:

OleBerg, on Aug 21 2008, 11:58 AM, said:

Arguments please, gentlemen.

I am trying to figure out whats best.

Assume you don't want my reply then.

Cant tell, but if it's somthing like:

"Convention X is best, all the experts play it."

It's ok not to reply.

I used to make those errors too, like

Robin/Robyn, Lesley/Leslie, Francis/Frances.

Girls should find their own names.

Nick/Nic

[paulg]

You can check what many of the top players use by going through the system cards for Beijing on the Ecats site.

[OleBerg]

OleBerg, on Aug 21 2008, 02:11 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Aug 21 2008, 01:47 PM, said:

OleBerg, on Aug 21 2008, 11:58 AM, said:

Arguments please, gentlemen.

I am trying to figure out whats best.

Assume you don't want my reply then.

Cant tell, but if it's somthing like:

"Convention X is best, all the experts play it."

It's ok not to reply.

Sorry.

Didn't get the gender thing. To slow again.

[awm]

I use double to show a major-minor two suiter, along with 2♣ as both majors and other two-level bids natural. A few points about this:

(1) While you occasionally have "game on power" after opps open strong notrump, this really is rare. Most of your games will be based on a good fit in a major suit. Having a way to show 4M-longer minor hands is very valuable here.

(2) For every time you have 22+ hcp divided 16/6 or 17/5 there will be many more times when your point are 12/10 or the like. Playing double as penalty or cards, you get them on the 16/6 types but not with 12/10. For this reason a double that shows just a decent hand may actually "get them" more often. Of course, double to show any random 12 count is suicide, but 5-4 type hands are actually really common and you get to convert fairly often. This double has twice the frequency of the popular "raptor double" and the method also gives you the surprisingly effective natural 2♦ call.

[crazy4hoop]

I like the penaltyish use for double, even vs. a strong NT, in the sense that I (rightly or wrongly) feel as if my opponents will be less likely to psych a 1NT opener against me or if they do so, they may be less than successful. I do, however, understand the popularity of the 4-card Major and longer minor use.

[dake50]

Try Lionel (look-up I-net write-ups).
Dbl =S+2nd may be 4S-4-2nd lays a claim to win 2-level partial as we have 'boss' suit.
2m =H+bid minor. This may be pushed to 3m/3H as we tell opponents they have spades likely/maybe, so 4m-4H too aggressive.
2M =just want to play here
X then 2S =raise me up if you will.
2m then 2NT =raise if you will.

The payoff target is 1NT =-90; -1 =50; -2 =100 THEY non-vul is highly likely a good result for them --try for 110 us. Whereas, -1 =100; -2 =200 THEY vul is likely good for us. I do like hefty 5-suit to lead +entry to double 1NT when they vul.
THEIR vul is decider!

[P_Marlowe]

No arguments from my side as well, just some remarks:

We play Lionel, constructive against weak NT (>=11HCP),
which still leaves the door open to get them, destr. against
strong NT <= 11HCP. The convention works well enough.

If you want to keep your other bids, look for hand types not
covered
#1 1-suiter with a minor
#2 2-suiter with a minor and a major

As it is, I believe it would make more sense to look for a
complete new set of meanings for all the bids X, 2C, 2D, 2H,
2P, and to do this, i.e. to decide which convention fits your
needs best, you have to answer the following question:
Do you want to go purely destructive against a strong NT or
do you want to keep the ability to still constructive.

Frances may have told you, that she likes to have penalty
double against a 3rd seat strong NT opener to reveal a psych,
but personnally I dont encounter psychs a lot, so for me this
has no high priority (at least at the moment).
From this followes only, that there is no best thing world wide,
just something which may be best for the specific enviroment
you are playing in.

With kind regards
Marlowe