[pclayton]

luke warm, on Aug 22 2008, 09:27 AM, said:

Al_U_Card, on Aug 22 2008, 10:59 AM, said:

Secretly, the american electorate is yearning for a "common man" as president.  A smart, inquisitive, valiant and honest type who will "set things right" and "get the job done".....so that they won't have to....or make too many sacrifices too soon.

Obama has the front/approach/attitude and is the first since Carter and Kennedy to have this kind of appeal.

The forces of darkness will encroach and exploit any and all opportunities. Will he make it past the dirty tricks and the media control?  Will he overpower the voting machine rigging?  Will he survive election?  Will he be allowed to take control?  Remains to be seen and only time will tell and its about time.

does this mean that if he loses it will be because of something underhanded?

pclayton, on Aug 22 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

At the Saddleback Church Forum last weekend (about 5 minutes from my house), McCain was asked what he considered a 'rich' person to be. $5,000,000 a YEAR.

I think this statement is more damning than not being able to answer how many houses he owns.

was there anything obama said that you considere damning? (or even danging)

LOL Jimmy, I'm not endorsing either of these buffoons.

[TimG]

cherdano, on Aug 22 2008, 10:50 AM, said:

TimG, on Aug 22 2008, 09:43 AM, said:

hrothgar, on Aug 22 2008, 08:47 AM, said:

I don't consider it particularly significant that McCain doesn't know how many houses his wife owns.

The real answer to how many McCain owns might be zero. I can easily imagine the home(s) being in his wife's name.

The interviewer correctly asked about how many houses he and his wife own together.

That may be a bit different. A couple of years ago, my family owned three cars. I could not have told you which were in my name, which were in my wife's name and which were in both of our names. But, I did know that we had three cars. On the other hand, I can also understand that a vacation home or two were actually owned by family members, not by McCain or his wife. And, can understand if McCain didn't bother himself with the details.

[Lobowolf]

jdonn, on Aug 22 2008, 12:54 PM, said:

luke warm, on Aug 22 2008, 12:27 PM, said:

pclayton, on Aug 22 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

At the Saddleback Church Forum last weekend (about 5 minutes from my house), McCain was asked what he considered a 'rich' person to be. $5,000,000 a YEAR.

I think this statement is more damning than not being able to answer how many houses he owns.

was there anything obama said that you considere damning? (or even danging)

Lobowolf, on Aug 22 2008, 12:31 PM, said:

jdonn, on Aug 22 2008, 10:27 AM, said:

This was an awful moment for McCain, but in my mind it's not a sign of elitism (which is frankly a quality I could care less about), it's (another) sign of senility. And that scares me even more...

More senile than John Kerry's driving the SUV he said he didn't own to his concession speech? (post-called out-explanation: "That's my wife's car.") Sounds familiar...

Does anyone ever give any answer other than "so what if we are terrible, you are bad too!"??

Absolutely. I don't have a "We." So my answer is more akin to "If you're calling They #1 terrible, are you calling They #2 terrible, too?"

It's probably even less that than saying that I don't think the house thing had anything to do with senility, and I don't think that anyone thought that Kerry was senile, either, despite making an essentially identical statement.

[Lobowolf]

pclayton, on Aug 22 2008, 01:01 PM, said:

luke warm, on Aug 22 2008, 09:27 AM, said:

Al_U_Card, on Aug 22 2008, 10:59 AM, said:

Secretly, the american electorate is yearning for a "common man" as president.  A smart, inquisitive, valiant and honest type who will "set things right" and "get the job done".....so that they won't have to....or make too many sacrifices too soon.

Obama has the front/approach/attitude and is the first since Carter and Kennedy to have this kind of appeal.

The forces of darkness will encroach and exploit any and all opportunities. Will he make it past the dirty tricks and the media control?  Will he overpower the voting machine rigging?  Will he survive election?  Will he be allowed to take control?  Remains to be seen and only time will tell and its about time.

does this mean that if he loses it will be because of something underhanded?

pclayton, on Aug 22 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

At the Saddleback Church Forum last weekend (about 5 minutes from my house), McCain was asked what he considered a 'rich' person to be. $5,000,000 a YEAR.

I think this statement is more damning than not being able to answer how many houses he owns.

was there anything obama said that you considere damning? (or even danging)

LOL Jimmy, I'm not endorsing either of these buffoons.

Can't remember who said it, but my favorite comment on the current election cycle is, "If God wanted me to vote, he would have given me a candidate."

[Lobowolf]

pclayton, on Aug 22 2008, 01:00 PM, said:

Lobowolf, on Aug 22 2008, 09:29 AM, said:

pclayton, on Aug 22 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

At the Saddleback Church Forum last weekend (about 5 minutes from my house), McCain was asked what he considered a 'rich' person to be. $5,000,000 a YEAR.

I think this statement is more damning than not being able to answer how many houses he owns.

Did you hear/see this one, Phil, or read it? I caught it on the radio, and it was pretty clearly (to me, anyway) flippant.

No, I wasn't about to spend $500 - 2,000 to help the burgeoning war chest of the Church of Sanctimony.

lol I got it for free on the radio. The context was "rich" in the sense of "rich enough that we can/should take more money from these people in the form of increased taxation," and McCain was deliberately giving an outrageously high answer consistent with his answer - Nobody. McCain also immediately acknowledged that he'd be hearing it as soundbite fodder, but in context it was a pretty straight answer. Obama set a low-mid 6-figure limit above which taxes should be increased to help out people who are less well off, and McCain said that nobody's taxes should go up.

[jdonn]

Lobowolf, on Aug 22 2008, 01:15 PM, said:

Absolutely. I don't have a "We." So my answer is more akin to "If you're calling They #1 terrible, are you calling They #2 terrible, too?"

If you must know, I really like Barack Obama. I really dislike, among many others, John McCain, George W Bush, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Mitt Romney, John Kerry, and pretty much everyone else

[Al_U_Card]

luke warm, on Aug 22 2008, 12:27 PM, said:

Al_U_Card, on Aug 22 2008, 10:59 AM, said:

Secretly, the american electorate is yearning for a "common man" as president.  A smart, inquisitive, valiant and honest type who will "set things right" and "get the job done".....so that they won't have to....or make too many sacrifices too soon.

Obama has the front/approach/attitude and is the first since Carter and Kennedy to have this kind of appeal.

The forces of darkness will encroach and exploit any and all opportunities. Will he make it past the dirty tricks and the media control?  Will he overpower the voting machine rigging?  Will he survive election?  Will he be allowed to take control?  Remains to be seen and only time will tell and its about time.

does this mean that if he loses it will be because of something underhanded?

IMHO, and it is only my opinion, does he even have a chance? A man of color? Really? In the US?

I suppose he could always sell (or be "enticed") out. Everyone has skeletons in their closets and this Chicago fund-raising business must have some pretty shady angles to it.

[Al_U_Card]

TimG, on Aug 22 2008, 01:13 PM, said:

cherdano, on Aug 22 2008, 10:50 AM, said:

TimG, on Aug 22 2008, 09:43 AM, said:

hrothgar, on Aug 22 2008, 08:47 AM, said:

I don't consider it particularly significant that McCain doesn't know how many houses his wife owns.

The real answer to how many McCain owns might be zero. I can easily imagine the home(s) being in his wife's name.

The interviewer correctly asked about how many houses he and his wife own together.

That may be a bit different. A couple of years ago, my family owned three cars. I could not have told you which were in my name, which were in my wife's name and which were in both of our names. But, I did know that we had three cars. On the other hand, I can also understand that a vacation home or two were actually owned by family members, not by McCain or his wife. And, can understand if McCain didn't bother himself with the details.

Don't candidates for elected office have to make disclosure statements about their assets and interests? (Or is that my Canadian origin giving itself away again?)

[Al_U_Card]

jdonn, on Aug 22 2008, 02:06 PM, said:

Lobowolf, on Aug 22 2008, 01:15 PM, said:

Absolutely.  I don't have a "We."  So my answer is more akin to "If you're calling They #1 terrible, are you calling They #2 terrible, too?"

If you must know, I really like Barack Obama. I really dislike, among many others, John McCain, George W Bush, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Mitt Romney, John Kerry, and pretty much everyone else

Hey Josh. My BIL mentee is head of the Obama campaign in Maryland and I have gotten a good inside viewpoint of what his "dedicated" supporters think of him.

What is it about him do you find appealing?

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Aug 22 2008, 11:06 AM, said:

Lobowolf, on Aug 22 2008, 01:15 PM, said:

Absolutely.  I don't have a "We."  So my answer is more akin to "If you're calling They #1 terrible, are you calling They #2 terrible, too?"

If you must know, I really like Barack Obama. I really dislike, among many others, John McCain, George W Bush, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Mitt Romney, John Kerry, and pretty much everyone else

And what do you like about him? His foreign policy experience? His clear energy policy?

We could do worse than Barack (or McClain). But we could do a whole lot better too.

Agree with your don't like list' especially Pelosi. I would add Boxer and the Sanchez sisters if we are talking Californeeya.

[Lobowolf]

A friend of mine from Jr. High is one of his main economic advisors. Professor at U. of Chicago now. I went to sleep the other night watching Olympic Boxing on CNBC and woke up seeing a guy I haven't seen since I was 12 explaining Obama's tax plan. Very surreal.

[Lobowolf]

jdonn, on Aug 22 2008, 02:06 PM, said:

Lobowolf, on Aug 22 2008, 01:15 PM, said:

Absolutely.  I don't have a "We."  So my answer is more akin to "If you're calling They #1 terrible, are you calling They #2 terrible, too?"

If you must know, I really like Barack Obama. I really dislike, among many others, John McCain, George W Bush, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Mitt Romney, John Kerry, and pretty much everyone else

Now, in addition to envying your BBO Star, I envy you for having a presidential candidate you really like!

[cherdano]

luke warm, on Aug 22 2008, 11:27 AM, said:

pclayton, on Aug 22 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

At the Saddleback Church Forum last weekend (about 5 minutes from my house), McCain was asked what he considered a 'rich' person to be. $5,000,000 a YEAR.

I think this statement is more damning than not being able to answer how many houses he owns.

was there anything obama said that you considere damning? (or even danging)

Jimmy, I agree this $5,000,000 a year quote was overplayed - if it wasn't for the context. The real problem is this one - clearly the background of Warren's question is the difference in tax policies between McCain and Obama:

(Washington Post, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8060900950.html )

This is at a point when income inequality is increasing (see http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/03/...8-resemblances/ ), and the difference in life expectancy between the rich and the poor is increasing (see http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/91xx/doc9104/04...tancy_Brief.pdf figure 2).

[jdonn]

Oy, I shouldn't have fessed up. I'm going to try to avoid this discussion further except to say that on that glorified list, I probably dislike John McCain the least. And I do dislike him.

Interesting chart above. Truth can hurt, can't it.

[Al_U_Card]

Perhaps some of the "senior" denizens in here can chip in, but when was the last time that there was a "choice" of candidates for president that was anything more than cosmetic?

[cherdano]

pclayton, on Aug 22 2008, 01:16 PM, said:

jdonn, on Aug 22 2008, 11:06 AM, said:

Lobowolf, on Aug 22 2008, 01:15 PM, said:

Absolutely.  I don't have a "We."  So my answer is more akin to "If you're calling They #1 terrible, are you calling They #2 terrible, too?"

If you must know, I really like Barack Obama. I really dislike, among many others, John McCain, George W Bush, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Mitt Romney, John Kerry, and pretty much everyone else

And what do you like about him? His foreign policy experience? His clear energy policy?

Here is why I like him:

He has the most impressive resume of any politician I know.

Unfortunately, the foreign policy judgment he has shown is a standout among American politicians (opposition to the Iraq war, willing to take common-sense positions with regards to interacting with Iran/North Korea/...)

The campaign team he has formed is quite impressive. I don't mean the press releases or ads etc., but for example the fact that there is not a single report about dramas inside the Obama campaign, that they have been able to be so disciplined in their VP selection message (no leak!), that they are able to build up the biggest political operation (GOTV efforts etc.) the USA have seen from grounds up within about a year, that they are the first campaign to really use the potential of the web. [Of course all of this isn't really the achievement of Obama, but of his staff, but it shows he had good judgment in his hiring decisions (e.g. I understand he hired one of the facebook co-founders) and hiring policies ("no drama queens").]

Well these are some of the objective arguments I can come up with, but the reason I personally like him is probably the same as for most people and their favored politician: I can relate to his reasoning and the framing of his arguments. To me it seems like one of the few politicians who try to talk to the audience as grown-ups.

Actually, what got me started liking him is when I read his speech on faith, given in front of an audience of evangelicals, in which he talks about the role of faith in politics (there is a transcript on his campaign website:
http://www.barackobama.com/2006/06/28/call...ote_address.php ).
Usually, I have to shudder or switch channel when I see or hear politicians talking about faith. This is a whole speech that I can relate to and mostly agree with.

[hrothgar]

Al_U_Card, on Aug 22 2008, 10:51 PM, said:

Perhaps some of the "senior" denizens in here can chip in, but when was the last time that there was a "choice" of candidates for president that was anything more than cosmetic?

I believe that the world would look very different (and much better) if Gore had been President. Same goes for Kerry.

[mike777]

I can understand the anger and frustration and the impression McCain stands for endless war. In fact the USA has basically been in an endless war since 1776. The World certainly has been. Perhaps Obama can change that. I am concerned this war on terror will outlive me and many in my family.

I can understand the concern that McCain maybe too old, too close to an age of senility and may have only a fleeting interest in economic policy. Obama coming across as much younger, full of energy and his brilliant legally trained academic/logical mind is appealing to many.

I found the Saddleback exchange interesting but the extemely personal nature of so many of the questions that these guys are expected to answer and discuss in public disturbs me. It would be nice if someone at somepoint says, NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

Of course while many may vote on one or two issues, Iraq or Abortion a persons character and basic belief system is important also. Carter vs Reagan you understand what each really believed in and wanted to achieve while in office. You agreed or disagreed and voted....

[Lobowolf]

cherdano, on Aug 22 2008, 02:24 PM, said:

luke warm, on Aug 22 2008, 11:27 AM, said:

pclayton, on Aug 22 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

At the Saddleback Church Forum last weekend (about 5 minutes from my house), McCain was asked what he considered a 'rich' person to be. $5,000,000 a YEAR.

I think this statement is more damning than not being able to answer how many houses he owns.

was there anything obama said that you considere damning? (or even danging)

Jimmy, I agree this $5,000,000 a year quote was overplayed - if it wasn't for the context. The real problem is this one - clearly the background of Warren's question is the difference in tax policies between McCain and Obama:

(Washington Post, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8060900950.html )

This is at a point when income inequality is increasing (see http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/03/...8-resemblances/ ), and the difference in life expectancy between the rich and the poor is increasing (see http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/91xx/doc9104/04...tancy_Brief.pdf figure 2).

What's an appropriate percentage of nation's total income tax revenue for the top 1% to pay?

[cherdano]

Lobowolf, on Aug 22 2008, 02:51 PM, said:

What's an appropriate percentage of nation's total income tax revenue for the top 1% to pay?

Better question: what is an appropriate percentage of the total income to be earned by the top 1%?