[jonottawa]

You are the 2♠ bidder. All red IMPs.

- / 853 / K982 / K97652

1N (15-17) - P - 2♠ (Clubs) - X
3♣ (Qxx or better) - P - ?

[rogerclee]

I pass.

[CSGibson]

I don't like our chances in either 5 clubs or 3N. We can guess that there isn't much wastage, but even then we need partner to have a good shape to take care of some of our red suit losers, and possibly a good split in trump since we don't have any spot cards. 3N is out for me, because I'm pretty sure they're finding the best lead to beat it. I know we're red at imps, but this looks like it's too low percentage to move forward.

What I really wish is that we had a better way of bidding the hand, maybe a 3 clubs invitational to 3N, showing 6-8 HCP, and 6 clubs. Then Partner can go to 3N with Axx of clubs and a reasonable hand, or stop with less. This seems like a hand that you want to be describing rather than making a final decision, since partner's holding is going to make the difference.

I guess what I'm saying is that I pass, but wish my methods were different so it wouldn't be my decision whether to go on.

[jkdood]

Wimpy Pass, Boy I must be getting old (and Justin too!!)

[SoTired]

ah ha... clubs will run because we have 2nd entry with ♦K. However, odds don't look good that opener has dbl spade stopper. So 3N is out. If partner has something like xxx KQxx AJx AJx, chances for 5C look good. But if opener has QJx Qxxx AJx AJx, chances don't look good at all.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could bid 3S and if partner bids 3N, we sign-off in 4C, but if partner bids 4C, we raise to 5C? Unfortunately, I don't think partner will agree to our interpretation of 3S followed by 4C.

Still .... red at IMPS and the dbl... Drat, if I had my IPhone, I could run a fast simulation in my pocket with vibrate set for 40% success.........

5C

[ochinko]

5♣. Vuln at IMPs I don't have any second thoughts.

[brianshark]

I'm going to chance 5♣. I feel lucky.

[gnasher]

It would make sense for opener to use the extra space to say whether he has a spade stop. For example:
  3C = club fit, double spade stop
  2NT = no club club fit, double spade stop
  Pass = not a double spade stop

After the pass, responder can redouble to ask about the club fit.

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Aug 11 2008, 03:29 PM, said:

It would make sense for opener to use the extra space to say whether he has a spade stop. For example:
  3C = club fit, double spade stop
  2NT = no club club fit, double spade stop
  Pass = not a double spade stop

After the pass, responder can redouble to ask about the club fit.

Without getting into specifics, I prefer to use the space to focus on playing 2♠X or 2♠XX if I think it's a good idea.

[benlessard]

pass easy.



All red in IMPs the double of 2S is more a competitive double than a lead directing double. So partner may easily have wasted S values. Its just wishfull thinking to want to try for low HCP games because we think all of partner hand is working.

[jonottawa]

I felt rather hosed by partner on this one. He had:

♠K987 ♥AKT ♦754 ♣AQ3

I think it's 'normal aggressive' to shoot 3NT with that and let the chips fall. I agonized and passed (thinking we were on at BEST 2-2 Clubs, since he 'couldn't' have the hand he actually held.)

At least I didn't shoot 5 Clubs.

[mcphee]

When forced to guess what is going on it is hard to be right all the time. The fact that 2S got dbled leaves several ways to show a huge hand in support of 3C while allowing partner to have a bucket of junk. I believe the NT opening hand does have this great hand and I would never be able to guess 3C was that hand, unless this was the way we SUPER accept. Qxx or better is not any help to me.

It is however a bit tempting to take another bid based on what might be 6 C tricks. The sad part is if I bid again, 3S showing shortness for example, my partner has every right to assume I have game going values opposite a minimum NT opening. I don't have it. Those who would like to bid 3N be my guest as I find it hard to think it rates to be a winner based on the auction presented to us.

Sorry that I do not agree the leap to 3N is the answer to my dreams after dble of 2S.

[gnasher]

jonottawa, on Aug 12 2008, 07:16 PM, said:

♠K987 ♥AKT ♦754 ♣AQ3

I think it's 'normal aggressive' to shoot 3NT with that and let the chips fall.

If responder might have a signoff in 3♣, I don't think it's clear for opener to bid 3NT with this. To make 3NT he needs responder to hold ♣K together with either a diamond card or four diamonds, or perhaps a misguess by the defence at trick two.

If responder has ♣K but no diamond stop, he'll pass 3NT and you'll probably go down. If he doesn't have ♣K, he'll probably remove to 4♣, where there's a significant risk of going for 500 or more.

This is partly a problem with the methods. Using 2NT/3♣ to distinguish between Qxx and xxx isn't very useful when responder has an invitational hand, where he needs to know about quick tricks as well as club fillers. I think that the distinction should be between "would accept an invitation" and "would not accept an invitation". That would have worked well on this hand

[benlessard]

Clear 3Nt by opener if i dont have a way to show super-acceptance. Vul at imps you dont pull 1Nt to play 3C unless you have real hope of making 3C if responder has real hope of making 3C then 3Nt by opener is a wise gamble. With a no big hope to make 3C hand responder should just wait for the double and run to 2C.

[gnasher]

benlessard, on Aug 14 2008, 11:48 AM, said:

Vul at imps you dont pull 1Nt to play 3C unless you have real hope of making 3C if responder has real hope of making 3C then 3Nt by opener is a wise gamble. With a no big hope to make 3C hand responder should just wait for the double and run to 2C.

So with xx xxx xx Jxxxxx I'm supposed to pass and watch partner 3 down in 1NT instead of 1 down in 3♣?

[dicklont]

Pass.
Opener could have bid 2NT to show his clubs fit and still be able to stop in 3NT when partner holds xx xxx xx Jxxxxx.
Is that not an essential part of this convention?